00:54:10 <xmrhaelan[m]> Does Monero community have a Mastodon server?
02:19:06 <p0kait0[m]> Hey Folks, does anyone have any beginner videos on Monero?
02:24:27 <needmoney90> What kind of video are you looking for?
02:24:53 <needmoney90> If you want an intro to crypto in general, there's some Bitcoin videos I can link. I'm not sure how beginner you're looking for
02:25:05 <needmoney90> The concepts cross-apply to Monero for the most part
02:25:21 <needmoney90> If you're looking for Monero specific stuff I can do some digging
02:25:50 <p0kait0[m]> Yea, could you shoot me the basic bitcoin vids?
02:25:58 <needmoney90> https://youtu.be/ZloHVKk7DHk
02:26:00 <p0kait0[m]> Im looking for pretty foundational stuff
02:26:04 <needmoney90> That one is brilliantly done.
02:26:14 <needmoney90> I recommend it to most newcomers :)
02:26:20 <p0kait0[m]> Thank you a bunch
02:26:40 <needmoney90> Ping me when you finish, I'll find more if you can tell me what area you're looking for info on
02:26:56 <needmoney90> There's a lot of facets
02:27:01 <p0kait0[m]> You got it! Good looks.
02:53:32 <p0kait0[m]> needmoney90:  Loved his explanations, very clear. Thank you! If you have more vids about jargon or what places or companies have already started using crypto to trade, that would be much appreciated.
02:54:19 <p0kait0[m]> needmoney90: Honestly send me whatever things you thought were informative.
03:25:44 <nioc> needmoney is best money
12:58:05 <Loca422> For a community that prides itself on manipulating people, you can't manage a single guy that spends most of his time in his underpants :D
14:58:56 <sgp_> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/201
14:59:35 <sgp_> I feel this really isn't in the desired scope of the CCS
14:59:56 <sgp_> It's not a general purpose gofundme
15:05:20 <SerHack> damn I wish to have the same idea for my career too 😂
15:08:14 <lh1008[m]> What if someones wants to support? Is there any problem if anyone is willing to support? If have seen plenty of gofundme proposals around, not sure why mine is different?
15:08:53 <sgp_> the two closest examples I can think of were for Surae and Sarang, are you referring to those two?
15:09:03 <lh1008[m]>  * What if someones wants to support? Is there any problem if anyone is willing to support? I have seen plenty of gofundme proposals around, not sure why mine is different?
15:11:47 <SerHack> lh1008: "An individual or team (henceforth 'proposer') has an idea to improve the Monero ecosystem that requires funds." from "CCS Proposal Standard Flow" on
15:11:47 <SerHack>  https://ccs.getmonero.org/what-is-ccs/
15:19:37 <lh1008[m]> <sgp_ "the two closest examples I can t"> Not really, I'm looking at the general scope. Most of the proposals benefit an individual's work or a team to improve the Monero ecosystem. Can't really think why mine would be different.
15:21:32 <sgp_> lh1008[m]: well, the others are obviously built around milestones that support the community in some way directly
15:22:03 <sgp_> if your milestones would be for certain Monero Outreach things, that would align more closely with what we typically see
15:27:08 <sethsimmons> Yeah I can't recommend this either. It potentially help you develop as an individual but has no clear connection to Monero and delivers nothing substantive directly to Monero.
15:27:20 <lh1008[m]> Well, you have seen I'm not a typical monero community member. Quite differences we have but we stand together, and I'll keep standing here.
15:27:24 <sethsimmons> You could try other methods of funding, but I don't know why the CCS fitsthis.
15:28:28 <sethsimmons> It doesnt really matter who it is
15:28:28 <lh1008[m]> Because I have been building not only my career but Monero too, so this fits Monero too. This is to help develop Monero's ecosystem.
15:28:37 <sethsimmons> I wouldn't approve a CCS to fund sgp_ going to school and paying bills.
15:28:56 <lh1008[m]> I would
15:29:26 <lh1008[m]> I would have to know why he's doing it, but if it fits, I'll go all in him.
15:30:22 <sethsimmons> It doesn't directly benefit Monero in any way, there are no deliverables to the community, and no guarantee you don't leave to work on something else with the skills you build.
15:30:48 <sgp_> I strongly encourage you to adjust your proposal to be about specific deliverables to Monero that are directly relevant. Until then, it won't be moved
15:31:15 <lh1008[m]> That's the risk every CCS has. I'm here, can't really say I'm going anywhere.
15:31:41 <lh1008[m]> Well, if it doesn't move it's okay, please don't close it. I'll leave it there for the record.
15:31:41 <sethsimmons> Other requests have clear deliverables that ensure that pay happens only upon completion of them.
15:31:58 <sethsimmons> This has a vague notion of future contributions based on what you learn.
15:32:14 <sethsimmons> <lh1008[m] "Well, if it doesn't move it's ok"> Its Gitlab, it will always be there "for the record", even if closed.
15:32:37 <lh1008[m]> Of course is based on what I learn. It's for coding purposes. Monero is built upon code isn't it?
15:33:36 <sgp_> I'm not going to discuss further. Change it or don't up to you really, but you can see the others to see examples of how they normally look and yours is different
15:33:40 <sethsimmons> Yes, no one else gets funding to learn how to possibly contribute in the future
15:33:44 <sethsimmons> Learning is an investment you make in yourself.
15:33:58 <sethsimmons> If you want to use that to code in the future for Monero and prove your skills some other way before then, funding woul dbe an option.
15:36:01 <lh1008[m]> Yes, those skills are to code for Monero and the community. That has always been the main objective.
15:36:29 <sethsimmons> Then learn them, come back, prove them, and request funding then :)
15:37:08 <lh1008[m]> <sgp_ "I'm not going to discuss further"> It's a CCS proposal following the rules and instructions. If you don't like what you see is your personal concern not everyone's concern. We have just heard you and sethsimmons.
15:37:25 <sgp_> okay fine you got me
15:37:31 <sgp_> :p
15:37:31 <lh1008[m]> And serhack too, and he showed I'm following CCS proposals instructions.
15:38:06 <lh1008[m]> What did I get? I don't understand
15:38:24 <sgp_> thank god this discussion isn't my problem anymore, but I do feel sorry for diego
15:38:33 <jwinterm> I don't think it really matters, but I tend to agree with sgp_ also
15:38:36 <sgp_> if you're unwilling to change, should be swift reject, out of scope, that's all
15:38:40 <jwinterm> if you want to do a gofundme then do a gofundme
15:38:48 <lh1008[m]> Don't feel sorry for people, that's not a good thing.
15:39:16 <SerHack> no, it does not seem you're following CCS instructions.
15:39:58 <sethsimmons> lh1008: I'm not sure if you're trolling or just not grasping what the CCS is for, but if everyone tells you that this is out of scope, maybe it is :)
15:40:00 <lh1008[m]> <jwinterm "if you want to do a gofundme the"> No jwinterm I'm here, and it's in the CCS, if I would want this in a different place of course I would have used other resources and not here.
15:40:28 <jwinterm> you're just asking for people to pay your rent with nothing delivered in return
15:40:32 <luigi1111w> pretty clearly out of scope
15:40:39 <lh1008[m]> I would have to fix it then, this is what matters isn't it? Fitting the scope?
15:40:39 <needmoney90> Agree with literally everyone else who has spoken thus far, it is an inappropriate location for a gofundme and should be closed.
15:41:31 <lh1008[m]> <jwinterm "you're just asking for people to"> I have delivered and keep on delivering, that's all I can really say about your comment.
15:42:15 <sethsimmons> We're talking about this specific CCS, obviously.
15:43:41 <sgp_> Yeah if you want to make it about delivering, make it about specific MO work
15:43:48 <lh1008[m]> I'll have to adjust it then, what does it need to fit the scope? I still do hours of work for Monero as volunteer, should I put that there? It's weird but I'll have to fit then.
15:44:20 <sgp_> First, close this one and start over imo
15:44:34 <sgp_> Then think of specific projects you want to work on
15:44:39 <sgp_> Then open a CCS for that
15:45:09 <lh1008[m]> I can fix it, it says I don't have to close it anywhere, commits shouldn't be forced pushed
15:45:49 <needmoney90> Lol
15:46:36 <lh1008[m]> <sgp_ "Then think of specific projects "> This is a project for Monero. What it seems is that you just don't want to fund it, and it's okay, I don't feel is bad you don't want it to be funded. But if fits for Monero, I'm getting prepared for whatever comes in the future.
15:46:55 <needmoney90> .....lol
15:46:56 <sgp_> it's not related enough sorry
15:46:58 <sethsimmons> This has nothing to do with Monero as-is.
15:47:16 <sethsimmons> Don't conflate you learning about "blockchain" with you contributing code directly to Monero.
15:47:32 <sethsimmons> I'm done here, everyone has been blatantly clear with you.
15:47:36 <sethsimmons> This CCS has no place being move to funding.
15:47:44 <lh1008[m]> <sethsimmons "Don't conflate you learning abou"> Well, there's ain't a Monero school yet, so I have to learn somewhere.
15:47:54 <sgp_> well anyway
15:47:56 <sethsimmons> Make one with clear milestones that aid the project or community in clearly defined ways or move along.
15:47:56 <sgp_> on another topic
15:48:02 <sgp_> there is a fancy meeting later today
15:48:08 <sgp_> #monero-research-lab
15:48:12 <sethsimmons> Ah yeah BP+?
15:48:18 <sgp_> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/542
15:48:24 <sgp_> bp+
15:48:30 <sgp_> triptych
15:48:34 <sgp_> ringsize v15
15:48:37 <sethsimmons> sweet
15:48:38 <sgp_> and more
15:48:50 <lh1008[m]> <sethsimmons "Make one with clear milestones t"> The milestones are clear, 9 months of studying, 60 weekly hours
15:48:53 <sgp_> sign up now to also get a free arcturus discussion
15:49:38 <sgp_> we're also having a Mastering Monero meeting later today
15:49:51 <sgp_> though that's just for 4 of us
15:49:54 <sethsimmons> Awesome!
15:50:06 <sethsimmons> Hopefully can get BP+ in soon.
15:50:14 <sethsimmons> And that nice ringsize bump ;)
15:54:13 <sgp_> I've made lobbying posters in preparation
15:54:32 <sgp_> #ringsize15forMonerov15
15:54:48 <sgp_> :p
16:00:14 <sethsimmons> XD
16:20:32 <donkeydonkey[m]> <sgp_ "we're also having a Mastering Mo"> is that a open meeting?
16:20:45 <sgp_> donkeydonkey[m]: no, just discussing internally
16:21:05 <donkeydonkey[m]> cool
16:22:46 <SerHack> It's private 😎  I think we will post an update on the project soon.
17:12:35 <lh1008[m]> We need to re-learn and help build a better community. https://theindependentwhig.com/2017/11/18/science-is-rational-rationalism-isnt-science/
18:32:44 <sgp_> luigi1111w: we discussed the BP+ audit proposal during the #monero-research-lab meeting, and we are in favor of moving it
18:32:56 <sgp_> maybe the asking XMR amount needs a refresh however
18:36:18 <luigi1111w> yeah refresh the amount and I'll move it
18:57:57 <gingeropolous> ringsize a bajillion or bust
20:06:05 <xmrscott[m]> <sgp_ "I've made lobbying posters in pr"> Let me know when to break out the picket printers :)
20:12:12 <sgp_> luigi1111w: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/197#note_10617
20:12:35 <sgp_> xmrscott[m]: apparently for next week, not enough time at the meeting today :)
20:12:41 <luigi1111w> great
20:47:58 <xmrhaelan[m]> For what it’s worth, lh1008 didn’t consult with me or anyone with Monero Outreach about his proposal and it’s not affiliated with us in anyway. However, if he had consulted I would have suggested he find specific course projects that he can work directly on Monero with and focus on those projects in his proposal.
20:49:51 <xmrhaelan[m]> I have seen nothing but comittment and hard work from lh1008 for Monero so have no doubts about his intentions, but I understand the criticism here and think if he spent some time aligning the course projects with needs of Monero he could make a good proposal here.
21:31:13 <lh1008[m]> <xmrhaelan[m] "For what it’s worth, lh1008 didn"> We're not late xmrhaelan, we have 9 months to focus in a Monero project to put efforts in. I'm very interested in security, so vulnerability disclosure program sounds interesting.
21:44:49 <needmoney90> I'll be blunt - for a person who doesn't even know how to write 'clean C code' according to their own proposal, paying them for anything 'bug and vulnerability' related is likely to have zero return on investment.
21:47:13 <needmoney90> And as far as not doubting lh's intentions, he's actively stated he wants to attack the network and that he supports the people who have literally been spamming us for months staight. I very much question his motives.
21:54:13 <needmoney90> In all likelihood he's making the proposal so he can get rejected and yell about being censored.
22:12:47 <needmoney90> Quote from the man himself:
22:12:53 <needmoney90> "I have seen how the monero group has turned into a so highly censored group that I honestly can't take it, this has happened too with the subreddit (/r/monero), that has lost completely its goal and has created hate around Monero that it ain't sustainable in time. If you don't post messages aligned with some moderators you are simply downvoted or shut. I can't really say I have been shut down in the
22:12:53 <needmoney90> subreddit but here in the telegram group @Needmoney90 ambitions to take control of what is being told keeps pushing the community into a place where we might never come back."
22:14:40 <kinghat[m]> interesting, think the vps might be throttling my node traffic 🤔
22:15:04 <xmrhaelan[m]> Needmoney90 I won’t speak for him but I suspect he regrets making those statements and didn’t fully understand the manipulation possible by the person who was pushing those conversations and spamming the network.
22:15:15 <kinghat[m]> might stick it behind a vpn after a bit
22:15:29 <xmrhaelan[m]> I have gotten on him about that as well.
22:16:00 <xmrhaelan[m]> At the same time, you not having any sense of grace or forgiveness kind of proves his point, does it not?
22:16:25 <needmoney90> You literally just said you have no reason to doubt his intentions
22:16:33 <needmoney90> This is a perfectly clear reason.
22:17:44 <needmoney90> If lh wants to take back his words, he's made no effort to do so publicly. The *only* thing he has done publicly is call me a censor (which is totally unfounded, Core has been provided a full audit, and can vouch that the claimed 'censorship' isn't occurring)
22:19:06 <needmoney90> I stand by what I said, his motives are highly questionable, and taking his actions here at face value doesn't take history into account.
22:47:42 <rehrar> wait, did lh1008[m] ever come to an understanding that dealing with ryo people is a fruitless effort?
22:47:44 <rehrar> I must have missed that.
22:48:19 <needmoney90> No, he is still actively speaking with them and I believe trying to get paid by them to work on it.
22:52:33 <needmoney90> Inb4 lh suddenly apologizes when he realizes his actions prevent him from getting $$$$$ (and not a moment sooner)
23:21:08 <DemonKing> some people have called you far worse than a censor before.
23:22:00 <needmoney90> Many of them true!
23:26:28 <honigkuchen> hi
23:26:40 <honigkuchen> is here a good place to talk open source in general
23:26:45 <honigkuchen> or open source communities in general?
23:32:07 <sgp_> honigkuchen: this might be a good place if it's relatively short, especially if the project is related to Monero somehow
23:32:33 <honigkuchen> I mean open source communities in general
23:32:37 <honigkuchen> and their people
23:32:58 <honigkuchen> and ahm I do not want to talk about a specific open source project
23:34:03 <honigkuchen> I thought about speding a lot money to some open source, when I become richer
23:34:15 <honigkuchen> but now I became much more doubtful if this is a good idea
23:34:16 <sgp_> xmrhaelan[m]: the way lh fought against "censorship" and causing pain to the mods, then starting their own group that was riddled with undesired content, then deciding to moderate that group, turning it into what is basically a RYO group, and then asking for money to moderate that group; this all does not inspire confidence frankly
23:34:44 <sgp_> it's been extremely stressful and damaging to be honest
23:35:08 <honigkuchen> sgp_, oh is here now just a talk about exactly some kind of that?
23:36:29 <sgp_> so when someone who's been around for a long while opens an out-of-scope CCS (where they probably should have known better) and then has responses all over the place, completely missing the feedback of like 10+ long-time members, it's FAR more trouble than it's worth
23:36:35 <honigkuchen> some minutes ago I had some sort of conversation that gave me a whole kind of different input how people in open source communities in their personality are
23:37:31 <sgp_> honigkuchen: there are many ways to give back; the easiest way to start is by donating to projects that you use and/or find interesting
23:45:05 <honigkuchen> to me there came doubts to spend money
23:45:15 <honigkuchen> because I had some experiences some minutes ago
23:45:29 <honigkuchen> that made me think about types of people in general
23:47:42 <rehrar> honigkuchen: what kinds of experiences?
23:49:37 <honigkuchen> I have had an experience with a very bitter open source developer
23:49:51 <honigkuchen> and it seems, idk, but it seems he sees in other people inhuman ones
23:50:05 <honigkuchen> he seemed to be someone that had very bitter experiences in life
23:50:15 <honigkuchen> and now sees in other people potential hypocrats
23:50:27 <honigkuchen> so
23:50:28 <honigkuchen> he thinks he is good
23:50:35 <rehrar> as do we all, sure
23:50:37 <honigkuchen> and others not
23:50:49 <honigkuchen> and this is logically someone that is not good
23:53:19 <honigkuchen> rehrar, we are not all totally bitter as he is
23:54:39 <rehrar> so you're concerned about how many people that contribute to open source are as bitter and self-righteous as this person? so you're not too keen on giving those sorts of people money or...?
23:55:14 <honigkuchen> forget about me giving money
23:55:38 <honigkuchen> promising whatsoever is somehow .... can be seen as hyporat
23:55:53 <rehrar> ok. Apologies. That's how you introduced the conversation. :) I'll forget about it here.
23:56:03 <honigkuchen> sorry
23:56:11 <rehrar> No worries. Please continue.
23:56:44 <honigkuchen> it is also about my opinion of open source in general, if they really are the good ones
23:57:50 <honigkuchen> my point is
23:57:56 <honigkuchen> I should better spend to someone certain
23:58:03 <honigkuchen> instead to a whole project
23:58:06 <rehrar> Well, the reality is that there's going to be bitter and hypocritical people in all walks of life. FOSS certainly has its fair share, but I wouldn't say its more or less than anywhere else.
23:58:28 <honigkuchen> but for me it is not about spending, but about my opinion
23:58:37 <rehrar> if that's what you feel would be the wisest thing for you to do, then I don't think anyone here would say you were wrong in following your beliefs here.
23:59:27 <honigkuchen> how many bitter people are in open source?
23:59:31 <rehrar> 3
23:59:35 <rehrar> just kidding. Who knows?
23:59:41 <honigkuchen> yes