03:44:49 <rotten> <@rehrar> I deleted my twitter. Waste of time.
03:44:50 <rotten> based.
16:48:53 <rehrar> Meeting here in ten minutes thereabouts
17:00:25 <rehrar> hey all. Meeting time.
17:00:33 <rehrar> 1. Greetings
17:00:35 <rehrar> anyone here?
17:00:56 <bevanoff> hello
17:02:15 <rotten> o/
17:02:51 <msvb-lab> Hello.
17:03:22 <sgp_> Hello
17:03:30 <ErCiccione[m]> hi
17:03:44 <rehrar> cool. We got some people with us today then.
17:03:53 <rehrar> 2. CCS Updates
17:04:20 <rehrar> first up, erciccione with more work on the website: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/199
17:04:33 <rehrar> opinions? thoughts? criticisms?
17:04:50 <ErCiccione[m]> just FYI is the same as the last one
17:04:55 <ErCiccione[m]> *it is
17:06:07 <rehrar> I say ye
17:06:51 <sgp_> Is 30 same rate?
17:06:58 <sgp_> I'm for either way
17:07:51 <ErCiccione[m]> yeah, it's copy-pasted wit the rewards changed
17:08:04 <ErCiccione[m]> thank you both for the support
17:08:40 <netrik182[m]> +1
17:08:40 <rehrar> ok, moving on
17:08:48 <rehrar> bulletproofs+ audit
17:08:49 <rehrar> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/197
17:08:59 <rehrar> sarang: are you here? can you give a note?
17:09:35 <rehrar> sarang asked several questions in the proposal itself that were answered by the team
17:10:36 <sgp_> Perhaps a broader question: do we need to solicit other audits as well or would be feel comfortable with this one only?
17:11:28 <sgp_> Maybe that's mostly an MRL and dev question
17:12:01 <sgp_> I think the community side should approve the CCS after an MRL meeting about it
17:12:17 <rehrar> yes, without a researcher here, it's hard to form an opinion either way. I'll make it a point to ask sarang another time and report back
17:12:21 <rehrar> ye
17:13:11 <netrik182[m]> a 2nd independent audit might be good, if possible
17:13:38 <rehrar> maybe the audit workgroup can get us a quote on one other?
17:14:23 <rehrar> Ok. then we also have Mastering Monero Serbian and Mastering Monero Spanish translations
17:14:26 <rehrar> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/185
17:14:29 <rehrar> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/182
17:15:09 <rehrar> If I may speak my opinion, I don't support these two. Not because there's anything wrong with the proposal or contributors themselves (both have contributed before), but because Mastering Monero desperately needs to be updated.
17:15:22 <rehrar> In particular, the Kovri section needs to be removed, as its still causing confusion.
17:16:14 <rotten> same boat here. mastering monero desperately needs that second edition before we can think of any reasonable translations.
17:17:07 <sgp_> I have the same opinion. The content is very old
17:17:21 <rehrar> SerHack: I don't know if you're present.
17:17:41 <rehrar> I know you've had ideas and desire to update the book, but don't know if you had (or will have in the near future) the time to do so
17:17:51 <rehrar> if not, perhaps we can see about getting a workgroup together to get that done.
17:17:52 <sgp_> We have some money and are discussing using it to speed up the 2nd ed, but will not be super quick turnaround either
17:18:12 <rehrar> Mastering Monero is an incredible resource. I think one of our strongest. It'd be great to get it updated sooner rather than later.
17:18:26 <rehrar> sgp_: decent use of my time to update, you think?>
17:18:41 <ErCiccione[m]> About translation-related CCS proposals. I want to point out that there is a new system now
17:18:56 <sgp_> rehrar: give me 1 week to get back to you
17:19:23 <ErCiccione[m]> After a proposal is merged and the work submitted, the translations will be reviewed by members of the localization workgroup and not by randoms
17:19:34 <rehrar> ErCiccione[m]: neato
17:19:39 <ErCiccione[m]> We have a little treasury now used for this purpose
17:19:48 <rehrar> woohoo!
17:20:08 <ErCiccione[m]> https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/monero-translations/pull/93
17:20:56 <ErCiccione[m]> This will hopefully avoid the problems had in past of CCS translators reviewing their own strings
17:22:10 <rehrar> ok, that's it for CCS stuff
17:22:20 <rehrar> 3. Workgroup reports
17:22:36 <rehrar> if you head or can speak for a workgroup's progress this past month or so, please feel free to speak up.
17:24:13 <ErCiccione[m]> loads of stuff
17:24:47 <ErCiccione[m]> and a surprise soon(tm)
17:24:50 <rehrar> O__o
17:24:52 <rehrar> no
17:24:58 <rehrar> surprise now!!
17:25:08 <ErCiccione[m]> surprise soon
17:25:13 <ErCiccione[m]> :)
17:25:13 <rehrar> :( ok
17:25:35 <rehrar> any highlights on 'loads of stuff' to share?
17:25:39 <lh1008[m]> Hello
17:26:32 <sgp_> MS will have weekly trading and news shows soon^tm
17:26:41 <SerHack> rehrar: sorry I was absent. I have a couple of ideas for the second edition and I think it's going to be better than the first one (we say: "more illustrations!").
17:26:44 <lh1008[m]> For Monero Outreach small report, out past CCS, in our second milestone, we're missing out the quickfacts. We're having some trouble with making calls using the RPC-pay server so that has us delayed in that.
17:27:05 <lh1008[m]> We're working on those fixes with moneromooo
17:27:54 <lh1008[m]> About the CSS Spanish Mastering Monero I undertsand too, I know it's old content. I'll close it :). Thanks
17:28:02 <ErCiccione[m]> any highlights on 'loads of stuff' to share? <- lots of translators and work on putting user guides on Weblate are the two biggest things i would say
17:28:48 <rehrar> SerHack: do you have any sort of timeline or no?
17:28:55 <rehrar> thanks lh1008[m], sgp_, and ErCiccione[m]
17:30:02 <sgp_> Oh yeah, and Monero Meet directly after this meeting if someone wants to join
17:30:26 <rehrar> Ok.
17:30:26 <SerHack> My biggest problem is finding time for project. At first, I need to complete tasks that can contribute to my "earnings" to afford university taxes.
17:30:59 <rehrar> SerHack: understood. Follow up question them. If the community deems this a priority, would you consider it someone stepping on your toes if they took the lead to update the book?
17:33:23 <rehrar> well, we're going to move on. Answer when you can and just put it in whenever.
17:33:31 <sgp_> We have about $5k to sponsor the effort
17:33:31 <rehrar> 4. Meeting on meetings
17:34:16 <rehrar> A while back, the devs decided that the dev meetings were dying down in usefulness as core and people responsible for merging were able to attend less and less. Due to this, the dev meetings have more or less gone away.
17:34:59 <rehrar> I want to ask people's opinions on the community meetings. Are they useful? Should be the changed or added to? What would make them better for the community at large? Should we attempt to get much more attendance or is getting the ideas of a few core people valuable enough?
17:35:18 <cankerwort[m]> monero-dev does not appear to be on Matrix
17:35:44 <ErCiccione[m]> you can join the freenode room from matrix
17:35:48 <msvb-lab> I think the community meetings are useful, yes.
17:36:23 <ErCiccione[m]> cankerwort: #freenode_#monero-dev:matrix.org
17:36:57 <cankerwort[m]> Ty ErCiccione
17:37:10 <ErCiccione[m]> np
17:37:15 <msvb-lab> A common strategy to plan projects is to add an agenda item to the next community meeting.
17:37:16 <msvb-lab> The only exception is when the plan can't wait for the next meeting, or if the project is so large that it has it's own meetings.
17:37:26 <cankerwort[m]> Bigger attendance by widely advertising earlier would be good
17:38:28 <rehrar> alright, thanks for the thoughts. I'll see about how to implement these and expand the community meetings there
17:38:32 <rehrar> that's all I was thinking :)
17:38:39 <rehrar> 5. Open Ideas Time
17:38:56 <rehrar> this is a time for anyone to speak up with an idea they have, or any other thing they want to discuss that wasn't discussed in the meeting.
17:38:59 <lh1008[m]> I think the community meeting should be keep running. They are important as they help organize community related stuff. I think those interested join and participate, those not so interested don't come.
17:40:18 <bevanoff> is there a reason that multisig has been available for so long but still isnt in the GUI wallet?
17:40:59 <needmoney90> The Monero meets tend to be larger than the community meetings these days, and more regular. You guys are free to join! Next one in 20 minutes on #monero-space
17:41:15 <rehrar> bevanoff: hmm...I guess nobody has made a good layout and no dev has decided to implement directly in the GUI
17:41:35 <rehrar> campaigning for it and getting people to agree and join your side might be a good way to show the devs that this is something the community really wants
17:42:27 <sgp_> I see the community meetings being more about the CCS discussions now
17:42:50 <bevanoff> mm okay so uh obviously im new but id be interested in adding it myself with some help with design
17:43:19 <rehrar> oh, awesome!
17:43:31 <sgp_> Oh, we also ideally need a new home for these meeting logs
17:43:31 <bevanoff> I actually started on it a couple weeks ago but figured I should see if its something you guys are actually interested in before continuing
17:43:41 <rehrar> it'd probably be wise to pop into #monero-dev then and talk with them about it
17:43:49 <rehrar> bevanoff: I'd be happy to have it in the GUI, yes
17:43:52 <bevanoff> ok coolio
17:44:08 <rehrar> sgp_: ye. is anyone submitting logs atm?
17:44:23 <sgp_> Not to my knowledge
17:44:27 <netrik182[m]> sgp_: I have monerobrasil.org domain/blog if you need a place
17:44:44 <sgp_> I talked to the Monerologs admin, maybe there
17:44:56 <sgp_> Haven't heard back since yet though
17:45:41 <rehrar> ok. I'll see if I can find a home, or make one myself then.
17:45:46 <rehrar> Thanks for bringing it up sgp_
17:46:05 <rehrar> ok. And with that, unless there's anything else, I'm happy to call the meeting here so Monero Space people can have time to prepare for their thing.
17:46:09 <nioc> another GUI looking for CCS funding which includes work in multisig implementation   https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/
17:46:11 <rehrar> Any last minute discussions?
17:46:26 <sgp_> ty nioc
17:46:30 <sgp_> ty rehrar
17:46:40 <nioc> just woke up from a nap :)
17:46:44 <ErCiccione[m]> They could be sored in the meta repo
17:46:54 <ErCiccione[m]> *stored
17:46:56 <ErCiccione[m]> the logs
17:47:12 <sgp_> yeah, not well indexed by google though
17:48:33 <rehrar> alrighty everyone. Thanks for coming! The meeting is over now. :)
17:48:37 <bevanoff> nioc: it seems like that's only for feather wallet not the official gui?
17:48:58 <bevanoff> also im not looking for funding or anything just like a project for my free time
17:49:49 <nioc> bevanoff: yes for feather, and yes it would be good to have it in GUI as well
17:50:19 <nioc> AIUI implementation is not straight forward
17:51:23 <nioc> bevanoff: I believe rbrunner did the CLI implementation
17:51:55 <bevanoff> which part? for simplicity's sake I've started with just the N/N scheme
17:52:10 <lh1008[m]> Thank you all for your participation :)
17:52:28 <bevanoff> *2/2 not general N/N typo
17:53:09 <bevanoff> The transferring of long strings for the wallet creation is annoying but I think QR codes could be a good aid
17:54:10 <nioc> I just follow things, hopefully someone can step up and answer your questions in more detail
17:54:31 <bevanoff> ok i guess I'll move over to the dev channel. thanks :)
18:12:40 <midipoet> can I just confirm that rehrar  is going to take responsibility for ensuring that -community meetings happen at regular intervals?
18:12:47 <rehrar> yes
18:13:03 <rehrar> unless somebody volunteers to take over :)
18:14:35 <midipoet> how regular are you intending them to be?
18:14:42 <rehrar> two weeks. Why?
18:15:28 <midipoet> because I didn't understand why needmoney90 said that Monero meets were more regular, when they are every four weeks
18:15:39 <midipoet> "Monero meets"
18:15:58 <needmoney90> community meetings have been spotty the past few months.
18:16:06 <midipoet> Yes, I agree
18:16:10 <rehrar> ye, my fault
18:16:11 <needmoney90> I wouldnt call them regular in any sense
18:16:33 <needmoney90> at least the meets have been around and happening on a timetable
18:16:40 <needmoney90> aka regularity
18:17:08 <needmoney90> (no thanks to me, sgp_ is much more organized than I am)
18:18:03 <midipoet> I think it would be a good thing if we ensure that there are bidirectional updates between the two "community groups". If all ok with it.
18:18:12 <midipoet> Decentralisation is cool and all, but....
18:18:59 <needmoney90> This has effectively become a CCS discussion meeting and not really a community meeting
18:19:28 <needmoney90> I dont really see why coordination is required when -space doesn't touch the CCS stuff, unless it comes up in discussion
18:20:50 <needmoney90> what kind of updates were you imagining?
18:21:03 <midipoet> I don't know. I hadn't thought that far
18:21:51 <midipoet> I always thought that -community meetings were for workgroup updates
18:22:05 <midipoet> But obviously that is not set in stone
18:22:32 <midipoet> I think it's important that when we do get back to "event planning", that there is cohesion. That's my main worry
18:22:43 <rehrar> I feel like updates aren't a great reason to have meetings. A newsletter would do fine. Unless the people had discussion.
18:23:03 <rehrar> midipoet: I also think the first step is seeing what events are valuable so we don't plan for needless events.
18:23:24 <midipoet> Sure, but there are the obvious ones
18:23:42 <midipoet> Which seemed to first stem from community and then branch out
18:24:29 <rehrar> I'll be blunt here. sgp_ was definitely the primary driving force behind the community meetings. And when he wanted the shift to the LLC, people rather he did it away from -community.
18:24:35 <midipoet> There is no reason why that can't change (to the monero-meet and then out), but then people should be made aware that is what is happening
18:24:55 <rehrar> This is fine, of course. But since I wasn't doing the meetings (unless he was absent) for a while, it didn't fit into my priorities as much as it did Justin's.
18:25:09 <rehrar> I'm getting a taste of whether or not that should change, but that's where it is right now.
18:25:22 <midipoet> Seems fair
18:26:42 <midipoet> -community could be designated for CCS discussions as needmoney90 suggested. Makes sense....but each workgroup lead should say, just in case they want some forum to update progress, gather feedback, etc
18:27:11 <midipoet> And I use "workgroup lead" in a loose manner
20:26:56 <oeadgk01[m]> Community Crowdfunding System (CCS): Current Translation Work: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/ktynjd/community_crowdfunding_system_ccs_current/
20:26:57 <monerobux> [REDDIT] Community Crowdfunding System (CCS): Current Translation Work (self.Monero) | 1 points (100.0%) | 0 comments | Posted by Icy_Data2270 | Created at 2021-01-09 - 20:25:35