17:59:10 <kinghat[m]> https://youtu.be/9WfZuNceFDM
19:20:36 <dEBRUYNE> sgp_: Did you see this btw? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxEENDi13Eg
19:20:36 <monerobux> [ Can Privacy-Preserving Cryptocurrencies and Regulation Co-exist? - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
19:21:18 <kayront> it's crazy how far down we've fallen as 'free' societies that this question even has to be asked
19:26:12 <sgp_> dEBRUYNE: I saw that this happened but I didn't have a chance to watch
19:26:26 <sgp_> Features Perkins and Gemini right?
19:29:02 <dEBRUYNE> Yeah and someone who worked at the NYDFS
19:33:32 <sgp_> watching now
19:34:16 <hyc> the fact that gov'ts are trying to phase out cash should be answer enough
19:34:52 <sgp_> yeah that's a larger battle
19:35:24 <kayront> the fact that most people don't seem to care is somewhat disturbing too
19:35:49 <sgp_> well, it's important to take these battles one at a time sometimes
19:35:53 <kayront> we should make animated cartoons explaining monero to 5 year olds, it's the only hope
19:36:14 <sgp_> making it normal for exchanges to support XMR, ZEC is important
19:36:25 <kayront> agreed
19:37:16 <hyc> meh. it should be normal for exchanges to ban XEC for being a scam
19:37:24 <hyc> ZEC ...
19:37:38 <sgp_> use its inclusion for your advantage though in making a narrative
19:37:48 <hyc> but our battle is the anti-cash battle
19:38:05 <kayront> anti-anti-cash
19:38:13 <sgp_> for example, Decred adding privacy had a surprisingly broad impact in making people realize privacy can be added to existing assets they support, even though it's not even on most exchanges
19:38:42 <sgp_> the "threat" of ETH adding privacy helps move these conversations forward
19:38:56 <sgp_> it's about the narrative
19:39:00 <sgp_> always has been
19:40:02 <hyc> what you're saying is we should downplay the difference between opt-in vs opt-out privacy, get regulators to accept all the opt-in coins, and then just sneak in with them.
19:40:16 <sgp_> no I'm not saying that
19:40:40 <sgp_> I'm saying that we should argue "Gemini allows withdraws to shielded addresses; why not support Monero withdrawals?"
19:40:49 <sgp_> stuff along those lines
19:41:37 <sgp_> what are your procedures for evaluating the risks of BTC deposits? how can that be applied to XMR?
19:41:44 <hyc> looks self-defeating to me, because you're equating XMR to all those other coins
19:41:56 <hyc> when clearly they are not all equal
19:42:10 <sgp_> what do you do when you run a customer's deposits through Chainalysis KYT and it says "unknown"? how would Monero be different?
19:42:45 <kayront> it's different because governments are already salivating at the fact that they can keep on tracking everyone even after they withdraw from the exchange
19:43:05 <kayront> no such luck with monero (as it should be)
19:43:29 <sgp_> in some cases it doesn't matter how it is in practice, so long as it looks good to the VASP and they can argue that they are doing proper due diligence
19:44:10 <kayront> i think a trump card (heh, good timing :p) might be the fact that many exchange CEOs and tech staff are totally pro-privacy, because they also get it
19:44:22 <kayront> sometimes it even comes up, but i can't help shake the notion that almost everyone is holding back
19:44:45 <sgp_> from them you usually get "we love privacy, but..."
19:45:25 <kayront> "but the regulator will fine us brutally and they got us by the balls now because we're a legit business"
19:45:32 <kayront> doesn't mean they don't want to offer it to people
19:45:52 <sgp_> perhaps but hardly anyone tries if they aren't forced to try
19:46:23 <sgp_> like, do you really think Gemini would push for ZEC if they weren't invested
19:46:49 <kayront> so you are saying we should donate gazillions monroes to exchange CEOs?
19:46:49 <kayront> :D
19:46:53 <kayront> interesting approach
19:46:54 <kayront> hehe
19:48:48 <sgp_> I mean that's one approach
19:48:52 <sgp_> pay someone to care
19:49:24 <kayront> we all should care, it's our freedom on the line. speaking to the choir here i realize
19:49:52 <sgp_> takes action to make dreams a reality
19:50:10 <kayront> as i'm fond of saying, i just don't get in which version of reality it makes sense that the baker sees i have $50k DAI from taking a trivial look at the blockchain
19:50:16 <kayront> like, seriously
19:50:30 <kayront> what are people smoking, because they should smoke something else
19:51:26 <sgp_> regulators sometimes only think in terms of the scope of their goals
19:52:18 <kayront> perhaps they ought to walk around with a live dashboard of their personal finances above their heads for a month or two to get the point
19:52:31 <kayront> add cellphone tracking and browser history to boot
19:52:33 <kayront> ****ers
19:52:33 <kayront> lol
19:54:23 <kayront> i find it very distasteful, the whole bully act, holier-than-tho, we-know-better-even-tho-we-don't-really-use-this-stuff, orders from above type of deal
19:54:39 <kayront> the state is the ultimate middle man
19:55:02 <dEBRUYNE> <sgp_> like, do you really think Gemini would push for ZEC if they weren't invested <= I frankly think ZEC would benefit from Monero getting listed on CB / Gemini
19:55:34 <sgp_> perhaps, but convince them of that :p
19:56:54 <kayront> give me two hits of acid and 12 hours and i can do it!
19:57:15 <kayront> the 2nd hit is for some zec guy, if it wasn't clear :p
20:05:27 <john_r365> hehe, to "show them the way". Peace, love and fungible digital cash
20:10:30 <nioc> :)
20:22:59 <sgp_> dEBRUYNE: panel was pretty informative
20:23:18 <sgp_> I recommend it
20:44:06 <dEBRUYNE> Will have a listen tomorrow
20:44:08 <dEBRUYNE> Feel free to post it on the sub too by the way