03:26:33 <lza_menace> has Dr. Kim's talk been uploaded yet?
03:45:19 <sgp_> lza_menace: not uploaded at their request
03:45:27 <lza_menace> aw man
03:45:29 <sgp_> Will be uploaded later
03:45:38 <sgp_> And you can see the streams
03:46:05 <lza_menace> all good, will be patient. thanks sgp_
06:54:49 <ErCiccione[m]> sgp_: there is an open issue about the redo of that page. I never started doing it because rehrar stated it's something he was working on. but that was more than 1 year ago, so i guess that's not the case anymore. If rehrar confirms he is not working on it i can put it in my todo list.
06:55:47 <ErCiccione[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/895
07:04:41 <Inge-> I hear that if someone asks to borrow your shower, that means sex, in japan.
07:05:39 <rehrar> Erciccione if you saw the list of things I need to get to you would laugh then cry then laugh then cry.
07:08:34 <rehrar> I actually started it. Got 60% of the way through. I'll look for the file in the morning. It's 1AM for me.
14:41:50 <xmrscott[m]> Inge-:  Yes and no. Not really a conversation best for this channel though
15:11:56 <Mumuks[m]> <Inge- "I hear that if someone asks to b"> How can you ask someone to actually borrow the shower then?
15:29:23 <sgp_> Since I'm not running the meeting Saturday I'll probably skip this one and have lunch with family
15:29:45 <sethsimmons> I will sadly also miss due to family plans
15:45:33 <Inge-> xmrscott[m]: Dont mind me. I just cant use a computer. this was (obviously) meant for -pools :D
16:09:55 <rehrar> A clarification from me: https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/i8hbr8/monero_community_workgroup_is_preparing_for_the/g1gdj4z/
16:43:38 <lh1008[m]> Thank you Diego by making the clarification. Anyway you're a free man even if you work with the Core team. I know you know you're a free man, I'm saying it because working with the Core team brings responsibilities and you have always stepped in front of everyone when you have to say something and I myself admire that courage you have by doing so. Thank you rehrar for all the work you do as always inside the
16:43:38 <lh1008[m]> community.
17:08:32 <ErCiccione[m]> Rehrar: maybe worth making a dedicate post. That thread is already older than 24 hours, o don't know how many will read your post.
17:10:10 <ErCiccione[m]> * i don't know
17:11:59 <rehrar> ErCiccione[m]: if you think it'll help. Although maybe it'll just make more drama.
17:15:01 <ErCiccione[m]> I think it's an important communication, especially since you were listed as part of the LLC and you are a rappresentarive of core. If you are stepping back from the LLS, i think it's something important to share. I understand your concerns tho, so, whatever you think ot's best :)
17:16:36 <ErCiccione[m]> Maybe you are right rehrar, probably better to post it after the news about the LLC will be officialy shared.
17:27:51 <rehrar> meh. Maybe you're correct ErCiccione[m]. I'll post it now.
17:28:13 <rehrar> I gotta deal with the consequences, eh? :P
17:30:38 <ErCiccione[m]> Well. From what i got from reddit, i think people will be happy to read your post. Personally i think it's a good choice. But again, if you think it will spark more drama, makes sense to wait. But i do think it's an important news that should be shared sooner or later.
17:31:35 <rehrar> ok. Posted.
17:32:28 <rehrar> https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/i9qc74/rehrar_clarification_on_the_llc/
17:32:32 <rehrar> go brigade this with love ErCiccione[m]
17:32:54 <ErCiccione[m]> ?
17:33:01 <rehrar> I'm joking
17:33:15 <rehrar> I just want your attention :/
17:33:17 <rehrar> even for just a moment
17:33:23 <rehrar> you looking in my direction
17:33:27 <rehrar> however briefly
17:33:32 <rehrar> erm. Anyways. Back to work.
17:33:37 <ErCiccione[m]> Well, that's a weird joke.
17:34:02 <rehrar> goodness I need a break from this place
17:35:33 <ErCiccione[m]> Yeah. Sounds like it.
17:37:16 <sgp_> We originally intended to release a statement on behalf of the Monero Community Workgroup, but it fell through. Doug and I will have our own statement out shortly
17:44:07 <kinghat[m]> is the outreach group going to incorporate as well?
17:47:40 <sgp_> kinghat[m]: that's up to them but probably not
17:59:10 <jwinterm> <@rehrar> go brigade this
17:59:20 <jwinterm> you are now banned from /r/monero
18:00:50 <rehrar> b@
18:00:57 <needmoney90> bat?
18:01:04 <needmoney90> b&
18:01:04 <rehrar> oof
18:03:04 <bemore> recent conversation has me wondering: in the past, has there been discussion on patenting something created by the developers or workgroups?
18:03:32 <bemore> have*
18:09:25 <ErCiccione[m]> Rehrar: maybe i misunderstood your "go brigade this with love". Probably you meant "go brigate this by giving it some love", but seeing the storm of downvotes that justin and nm90 got on that reddit post for one moment i thought it was some subtle message in my direction.
18:09:53 <ErCiccione[m]> But since that wouldn't make any sense, i probably misunderstood. Apologies.
18:11:19 <needmoney90> https://gist.github.com/SamsungGalaxyPlayer/db745ee6b967e91b5318f2db04f4ee2f
18:11:20 <rehrar> Yes. I was joking to go brigade it in my favor. These kinds of jokes have been made before. That said, it was still probably in poor taste since tensions are high these past days.
18:11:32 <rehrar> So my apologies for the misunderstanding ErCiccione[m]
18:15:34 <sgp_> It has been an honor serving you all. This workgroup means so much to me as it has been a huge part of my life the last several years.
18:22:51 <Inge-> The king is dead!  Long live the king!
18:24:37 <ErCiccione[m]> As i said in private, i think separating the workgroup with the company is the way to go and creating a new workgroup for it is the right move. I can only wish you both good luck :)
18:31:35 <xmrscott[m]> <bemore "recent conversation has me wonde"> No. Pretty much everything used is FOSS bar GitHub itself. All out of the box stuff bar CCS
18:32:19 <sethsimmons> <ErCiccione[m] "As i said in private, i think se"> For sure, think this is the correct move to keep the MCW functioning separately and let the new workgroup provide services/focus to whichever workgroups want it.
18:32:43 <sethsimmons> Should be a good compromise, and should benefit Monero in the long run :)
18:34:12 <ErCiccione[m]> Sethsimmons: i couldn't agree more. That's literally what i suggested here the day after the announcement on reddit :P
18:34:35 <sgp_> xmrscott[m] and sethsimmons: it's absolutely amazing to have you two onboard right away
18:42:37 <xmrscott[m]> Glad to assist. ☺
18:43:12 <sethsimmons> Happy to jump in, think this will be a great way for me to contribute!
18:43:54 <xmrpow> sgp_: I think this was the right move after all this drama: https://gist.github.com/SamsungGalaxyPlayer/db745ee6b967e91b5318f2db04f4ee2f. I like the idea what you are trying to do. Do you still need some volunteers?
18:45:01 <sgp_> xmrpow: yes absolutely! We hope to have a name and channel up late today
18:45:57 <ErCiccione[m]> (Correction: i made my suggestion during the discussion here on irc, not after the announcement on reddit)
18:46:22 <xmrpow> sgp_: I dont understand why they were all going crazy about this name. Nobody cared about tari....
18:46:35 <xmrpow> Tari does support xmr as well...
18:47:14 <xmrpow> sgp: Reddit?
18:47:53 <sgp_> Sure that too
18:48:11 <bemore> I'd be happy to help as well, either with with the workgroup or the new effort
18:48:25 <xmrpow> sgp:What channel did you mean?
18:48:29 <xmrpow> irc?
18:48:36 <sgp_> Yeah
18:48:38 <xmrpow> ok
18:48:52 <sgp_> bemore: noted :)
18:51:51 <xmrpow> sgp_ : Is the soly purpose of this workgroup to reach the goals you mentioned in the reddit thread?
18:52:09 <xmrpow> Or do you have other goals as well on the agenda?
18:53:05 <sgp_> At the moment just those I think
18:59:08 <xmrpow> sgp_: What about a fiat xmr bridge?
18:59:33 <needmoney90> im very much not trying to get this tied up in money transmission
18:59:38 <sgp_> We're not an exchange and don't aspire to be one
19:01:04 <asymptotically> "get needmoney90 arrested LLC."
19:01:15 <needmoney90> pls no
19:01:32 <xmrpow> probably too complicated with regulation.
19:01:48 <xmrpow> There was this guy at librem promising that ;)
19:01:59 <needmoney90> librem have promised a lot of things
19:02:12 <xmrpow>  and didnt deliver
19:02:27 <lza_menace> i'll volunteer to help with server and software administration
19:06:27 <needmoney90> I have a feeling we'll be juggling  plenty of servers, I'll shoot you a pm later lza
19:06:51 <lza_menace> aight
19:11:39 <xmrpow> What about hosting some additional high bandwidth servers for rpc calls under this hood?
19:13:04 <needmoney90> For the moment, the intent was to aggregate payments that Justin and myself were already making, so we weren't seeking external funds. If we did that we would have to figure out who's paying :)
19:13:11 <needmoney90> But that's a good idea
19:13:45 <needmoney90> It's in the general vein of things we would reasonably expect to host
19:18:45 <xmrscott[m]> "xmrpow" (https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_xmrpow:matrix.org): Didn't deliver... yet
19:20:04 <xmrscott[m]> (I say this as someone who has had one on order for years and is waiting for my 3GB ram variant PinePhone to ship
19:21:00 <asymptotically> needmoney90: lza_menace: might as well cancel the forum because it won't be based and wowpilled
19:21:10 <asymptotically> even the viagra spammers won't want to come, they're busy living the WOW life
19:21:17 <xmrscott[m]> ) I don't think many people realize the sheer amount of work they've put in to mainline stuff the HW vendor was supposed to or the fact they created libhandy + Phosh
19:22:17 <needmoney90> For the pricetag I would expect the people did expect the amount of work.
19:23:44 <xmrpow> xmrscott: I do think at this price point you do need a working product and not a work in progress. Especially their marketing was bad, because they sold a dream and not a product ready for shipment.
19:24:00 <xmrpow> I think at this point pine64 is much better
19:24:15 <lza_menace[m]> asymptotically: my thoughts exactly
19:24:38 <xmrpow> They clearly tell you that is a product that is for tinkering.
19:28:58 <rehrar> Regarding the Flarum. Would it be best for core to host this? Or do people think the new workgroup should?
19:29:35 <xmrpow> Why not the new workgroup? It would "decentralize" things in some way.
19:29:36 <xmrscott[m]> Fair enough I suppose. I've seen similar laybacks with the Turris MOX and the mycroft mk II so I'm probably jaded a decent amount to these kinds of things
19:29:59 <rehrar> As of now, besides IRC/Mattermost, core doesn't own any communication points
19:30:50 <xmrscott[m]> Core effectively owns the sub
19:30:51 <rehrar> Reddit is modded by third parties (and owned by Reddit), telegram is the same.
19:31:11 <Inge-> mailing list too?
19:31:15 <rehrar> Because of eizh?
19:31:17 <xmrscott[m]> eizh hasn't been active for three years, fluffy is the next mod
19:31:19 <xmrpow> rehrar: But they do have control over the whole software part. I think that should be enough.
19:31:23 <rehrar> Inge-: ah. Good. Forgot that one.
19:31:48 <rehrar> xmrpow: reasonable
19:32:15 <rehrar> I guess people also use GitHub for comms for some reason.
19:33:42 <xmrpow> I think splitting up the powers wouldnt be bad, because marketing people do need the software people and the other way round.
19:35:32 <xmrscott[m]> Also, I'd rather Core use war chest funds on more critical stuff like MRL
19:36:03 <xmrscott[m]> Flarum is nice, but nowhere near as critical. Reddit takeover/shutdown is not imminent
19:36:08 <xmrpow> rehrar: Couldnt you host some gitlab instance?
19:36:19 <xmrpow> Would be better than github.
19:36:31 <Inge-> isn't gitlab expensive?
19:36:50 <lza_menace[m]> There is an open source version
19:37:07 <rehrar> We have a gitlab
19:37:12 <rehrar> repo.getmonero.org
19:37:27 <rehrar> Decided to migrate off of it back to GitHub.
19:37:34 <xmrpow> Why?
19:37:42 <Inge-> whaaa?
19:38:27 <xmrpow> rehrar: Maybe hosting a second one as a fallback?
19:41:24 <rehrar> https://web.getmonero.org/2020/04/13/migration-github.html
19:42:44 <rehrar> In short, the gitlab was started a couple years back with the goal of transitioning there in the future. We moved the site repo over first for testing purposes.
19:43:13 <fluffypony> Inge-: self-hosted GitLab is free
19:43:21 <fluffypony> cost wasn't the issue, ease of use was
19:43:29 <fluffypony> amongst other things
19:43:30 <rehrar> After some time it was decided to abandon the idea for r reasons outlined in the post.
19:43:59 <fluffypony> we have BackHub and individual backups of the GitHub repos, so I personally no longer consider this a major issue
19:44:05 <rehrar> fluffypony: but we haven't tried gogs yet
19:44:12 <fluffypony> especially because we have outlined our use-case to BackHub
19:44:25 <fluffypony> and they know that if GH blocks us we'll be using the backup to restore elsewhere (eg. self-hosted GitLab)
19:44:51 <fluffypony> rehrar: half a dozen of one, six of the other
19:45:02 <fluffypony> GH has really nailed the FOSS workflow down
19:45:57 <rehrar> fluffypony: the only truly decentralized way is for everyone to have the reps on their computers and push to everyone else.
19:46:11 <fluffypony> the problem is that git is *just* the code
19:46:15 <rehrar> I'm shocked Monero is taking the easy way out in this regard.
19:46:21 <fluffypony> it isn't issues, PRs, comments, wikis, etc.
19:46:26 <rehrar> I'm joking!!! :P
19:46:28 <fluffypony> BackHub captures all of that
19:46:49 <rehrar> It would be nightmarish.
19:47:01 <rehrar> Speaking of, it's been discussed a couple of times, but should CCS be migrated to GH?
19:47:11 <rehrar> The functionality is already there for GH.
19:47:13 <asymptotically> fluffypony: so you're saying we should switch to fossil instead of git? :D
19:47:25 <rehrar> xiphon: made it so when doing the ZCS for Zcoin because that's what they use.
19:47:28 * fluffypony throws up a little in his mouth
19:47:33 <fluffypony> asymptotically: no :-P
19:48:02 <fluffypony> rehrar: I think so, but I'm not a CCS user (rather just a contributor) so users may have strong opinions
19:51:54 <xmrpow> fluffypony: Ok, never have used github. Just some local git repo. But it does make sense.
19:52:21 <fluffypony> xmrpow: yep - and the code currently exists on literally tens of thousands of computers
19:52:25 <fluffypony> so we don't need to worry about that
19:52:53 <xmrpow> But whose copy are you going to trust if it fails?
19:53:43 <asymptotically> the ones with the signed commits and tags
19:54:00 <fluffypony> xmrpow: we sign merge commits
19:54:09 <fluffypony> so there's a GPG-signed tree to follow
19:54:12 <xmrpow> ah ok
19:55:27 <xmrpow> fluffypony: By the way: How is tari s testnet doing?
19:58:55 <sgp_> rehrar: before Core starts hosting more infra, I hope they have the maintenance/moderation covered
19:59:24 <sgp_> because if you are give that task... big yikes
20:15:17 <sarang> rehrar: What happens to GitLab comments on CCS proposals if you move to GitHub?
20:15:27 <sarang> Things like updates, reports, and important discussion happen there
20:16:17 <rehrar> Yeaaaah
20:16:27 <rehrar> Maybe don't touch it. :P
20:17:44 <sarang> As far as hosting on GitHub goes, IIRC one reason was visibility and ease of onboarding contributors
20:17:57 <sarang> Plus a lot of the CI stuff seems more mature, and it's free to FOSS projects AFAIK
20:18:05 <sarang> Why not take advantage of free computing power?
20:18:34 <sarang> Plus little things like proper SSH key support etc.
21:12:07 <midipoet> sgp_: why do you and needmoney90 have to step down from monero-community?
21:12:29 <needmoney90> It is core controlled and apparently people dont want anyone associated with a corporation near it.
21:12:42 <needmoney90> So we have left it under core, where it originally was.
21:13:13 <midipoet> needmoney90: I don't think that's true about not wanting anyone near a LLC near it.
21:13:28 <midipoet> People didn't want community to "become" an LLC
21:13:31 <midipoet> That's different
21:13:34 <needmoney90> Some people were very vocal.
21:13:37 <needmoney90> Maybe not you.
21:13:43 <needmoney90> But some people directly called for us to quit.
21:13:45 <sgp_> personally, I think that Core's leadership here best reflects many people here's vision for the #monero-community channel
21:14:31 <sgp_> and thus there isn't much benefit to me remaining a leader here
21:14:36 <midipoet> sgp_: I would probably agree with that, but that doesn't mean you and needmoney90 shouldn't have "leadership" roles here. Maybe not "formally" but certainly in spirit.
21:14:50 <sgp_> I'll still be around
21:15:00 <needmoney90> You can have your decentralized paradise. I'll check in from time to time.
21:15:27 <kinghat[m]> 🏖️
21:16:03 <midipoet> fair enough, it's both your choices. it seems a strange compromise to me, but if that's what you felt was best
21:16:55 <sgp_> I personally just am not especially inspired to work on this workgroup as-is
21:17:05 <midipoet> anyway, for those interested, I have started motions on this
21:17:08 <midipoet> http://icos.ie/starting-a-co-op/registering-a-co-op/
21:17:13 <midipoet> We will need seven people
21:17:21 <midipoet> I would prefer more
21:18:02 <sgp_> what is this for?
21:18:22 <midipoet> a co-op
21:18:37 <sgp_> I know but what is the co-op for
21:18:44 <midipoet> have not a clue
21:18:52 <sgp_> haha all right
21:18:55 <midipoet> But thought it an interesting idea
21:18:59 <midipoet> Have no plans
21:19:12 <midipoet> But it's a nice way to form a legal entity around common goals
21:19:21 <kinghat[m]> seems excessive for at the root what looks like a need for the optics of legitimacy and to pay for some hosting.
21:19:23 <midipoet> someone was saying that was needed
21:19:33 <midipoet> kinghat[m]: oh totally agree
21:19:43 <midipoet> but people wanted a viable alternative
21:20:07 <midipoet> and I sort of like the idea of a hippy dippy community
21:21:00 <midipoet> also, I think you'll find that the legal act that supports the coop gives the entity considerable legal weight
21:21:06 <midipoet> If that's something that is required
21:21:12 <midipoet> either now, or the future
21:21:28 <midipoet> It's also a way to ensure there is minimum hierarchy in the structure
21:21:52 <midipoet> well at least formally ensure there is little hierarchy
21:30:28 <ErCiccione[m]> midipoet: I agree. I don't think it was necessary for them to "quit", but if they feel like they don't want to have leadership roles in a community structured as the monero community workgroup is, i understand the choice.
21:32:17 <ErCiccione[m]> And yes, nobody was against the creation of an LLC as far as i can tell, one of the main problems was always only the MCW becoming an LLC
21:49:47 <midipoet> ErCiccione[m]: to be honest, I didn't like the idea of the LLC at all. others were more ok with it than I. That's why I suggested an entity like a co-op, which I think is more palatable, even if there could easily be criticisms of it as well. However, it's a pity that they chose the LLC over guiding #monero-community . That's an interesting decision, but ultimately theirs to make.
22:01:17 <midipoet> Some good info on co-ops if people are interested. Feel free to say stfu if not
22:01:22 <midipoet> http://icos.ie/starting-a-co-op/co-op-principles/
22:07:23 <bemore> Well, let's create an example or two that involve finances and figure out how they should be handled. An idea I've seen mentioned before is to sponsor an e-sports streamer. They're not expensive, have an audience, and some of them are very wholesome. Many other streams are becoming popular now, too, such as musicians and chess players.
22:07:47 <bemore> What kind of organization would best be suited to collect funds and carry out this idea?
22:10:57 <midipoet> why do we need to sponsore someone?
22:13:21 <sgp_> midipoet: a co-op is a type of LLC/corporation in the US
22:13:58 <midipoet> As it is here. It's a legal entity
22:14:33 <midipoet> there are  different rules regarding how it is required to interact with the state
22:14:47 <midipoet> And it's obligations to members and members to it
22:20:22 <bemore> I think it would be fun to sponsor someone.
22:26:56 <midipoet> fair enough
22:27:18 <midipoet> seems a cheap marketing trick to me
22:29:28 <xmrscott[m]> Didn't fluffy or someone sponsor some long distance boating rig maybe 3 years ago?
22:30:37 <bemore> I guess that's true, but for little events like that, an entire prize pool might not be more than $1,000. It would support a (perhaps too small to matter) community.
22:30:45 <xmrscott[m]> Yep, found it: https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/87627/get-a-massive-monero-logo-on-a-sail-in-the-bermuda-one-two-yacht-race
22:30:49 <bemore> anyway, the bigger idea here is: would an LLC be good for this?
22:35:27 <bemore> (I don't think so, they could just use the CSS like everyone else :P)
22:43:44 <bemore> I guess I'm confused as to why an LLC is needed at all. Is it just for making server payaments?
22:50:12 <lh1008[m]> Getting donations is kind of what's going on. I might be wrong, but my mind spits it...[:shrug:]
22:51:38 <lh1008[m]> Donations=funding/funds
22:57:27 <bemore> i could understand them not wanting something like that going to their personal bank account
23:05:15 <midipoet> the reasons given were 'aggregating payments' (an LLC pays for goods/services) and to avoid the 'bus factor' (assets being held by one individual who may go missing/pass away). They are valid reasons, in some ways. Whether the community and its assets (current and future) needed to be subsumed into the LLC was a concern, among others.
23:08:30 <jwinterm> bemore: if a person accepts "donations" then they are obligated to treat it as income even if they turn around and spend it on monero crapola
23:08:43 <asymptotically> lol crapola
23:08:44 <jwinterm> or lie on their taxes
23:09:35 <midipoet> That's not true in all jurisdictions, afaiu
23:10:02 <jwinterm> it's certainly true in the united states, which is where all three of the folks in question reside
23:12:05 <midipoet> So receiving CCS funds was the tax issue?
23:12:05 <midipoet> For the three involved?
23:12:48 <jwinterm> CCS funds are also to be treated as income and then assets for capital gains if you don't immediately sell
23:12:58 <jwinterm> I remember that fucking over the kovri guy supposedly
23:13:21 <jwinterm> but I'm just saying, you can't accept "donations" without treating it as income or lying on your personal taxes
23:13:23 <xmrscott[m]> Gifts/presents are not taxable im US FWIW
23:14:04 <jwinterm> that is true to an extent, but there are limitations there
23:14:16 <jwinterm> which I'm pretty sure would preclude taking money from strangers on the internet
23:14:16 <xmrscott[m]> IANAL, so no clue if you spin up a server and ask for 'gifts' of money that is acceptable to not have taxes
23:14:27 <midipoet> donations are also not taxable here in Ireland
23:14:59 <midipoet> jwinterm: so if I set up a donattome page for a heart operation, I would be taxed as income?
23:15:10 <midipoet> *donatetome
23:15:17 <xmrscott[m]> Yes
23:16:02 <xmrscott[m]> Or at least a GoFundMe page is apparently taxable
23:16:37 <jwinterm> seems kinda murky tbh https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2018/mar/donation-based-crowdfunding.html
23:16:50 <sgp_> jwinterm: there are ways for donations (up to a certain amount) to not be taxable in the US
23:16:50 <jwinterm> Sec. 61 states that "gross income means all income from whatever source derived," unless specifically excepted. Statutory exceptions include the value of property acquired by gift (Sec. 102). A gift is given from " 'detached and disinterested generosity,' ... 'out of affection, respect, admiration, charity, or like impulses,' " and not from " 'any moral or legal duty,' or from 'the incentive of anticipated benefit,' " or "in return for
23:16:50 <jwinterm> services rendered"
23:17:09 <jwinterm> in this case the donator would expect some benefit or services rendered
23:17:16 <midipoet> services rendered is murky
23:17:16 <jwinterm> so I don't think it would really be a "gift"
23:17:36 <jwinterm> you're not giving money to justin and doug to do whatever they want with, right?
23:17:39 <sgp_> https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes
23:18:01 <midipoet> but is this what the whole thing was about?
23:18:15 <sgp_> I'm not commenting on donations to a general business fund here, just talking about some CCS gifts perhaps
23:18:34 <midipoet> sgp_: I don't understand
23:19:02 <sgp_> For the CCS: it depends
23:19:19 <sgp_> Someone using CCS to cover their job? Income. Reimbursement? Maybe gift
23:19:34 <midipoet> I am talking about the LLC
23:19:37 <sgp_> Depends on the factors in that FAQ
23:19:42 <sgp_> For LLC probably income
23:19:53 <sgp_> We consider the Mastering Monero donations as income
23:20:13 <midipoet> Right, but was the LLC to make tax burden easier for a CCS
23:20:33 <sgp_> That was related to capital gains mostly
23:20:45 <midipoet> it's a yes or no answer
23:21:20 <sgp_> Ok.... Not going to engage then because what you're asking for is a complex topic where many different tax laws apply, so definitely can't respond with yes/no
23:22:03 <midipoet> I was asking whether the impetus to create the LLC was because you wanted the LLC to be used for a CCS
23:22:34 <sgp_> I never wanted the main source of income to be from the CCS (you took issues with this)
23:22:52 <sgp_> So CCS taxation was never my primary consideration
23:23:18 <sgp_> This I don't really have opinions on it
23:23:26 <sgp_> s/this/thus
23:23:26 <monerobux> sgp_ meant to say: I never wanted the main source of income to be from the CCS (you took issues with thus)
23:23:39 <sgp_> Lol not that :p
23:25:23 <sgp_> In any case y'all don't need to worry about any of this now
23:25:48 <midipoet> Do people here worry about taxes?
23:26:05 <midipoet> here in Ireland, they just get taken from me automatically
23:26:10 <midipoet> I don't have a choice
23:26:21 <midipoet> easy come, easy go
23:26:23 <jwinterm> after having to pay an ungodly amount of taxes a couple years ago, yes
23:26:33 <jwinterm> yes I do
23:26:57 <midipoet> I was chatting with a Dr. Today. He is writing on tax moral
23:27:09 <midipoet> pretty interesting topic
23:27:33 <midipoet> The Russians can identify how much tax you owe on their systems in 90 seconds
23:27:41 <midipoet> They have ALL the data
23:28:00 <sgp_> The US can do that since they usually have all the data, but they don't because of lobbying lol
23:28:27 <jwinterm> my irl day job is such that I can't risk trying to skirt taxes
23:28:28 <sgp_> I have the privilege of paying tax preparers money for them to lobby for the IRS to not provide easy, free tools
23:29:29 <xmrscott[m]> Yes. US is absolutely horrible. Multi Billion dollar tax software industry spun up because of lobbying
23:29:58 <sgp_> It's common to spend >$100/yr on taxes
23:30:33 <jwinterm> for last few years we just pay few hundred bucks to have a professional do them
23:31:02 <jwinterm> this year she moved to our neighborhood
23:31:07 <xmrscott[m]> So many memes out there out there about being fined by the IRS for not reporting correctly and saying why don't you just f'ing tell me IRS since you obviously know much I owe
23:31:10 <jwinterm> and came over and drank a bunch of wine while we did taxes
23:31:14 <jwinterm> was kinda weird
23:31:21 <xmrscott[m]> *tell me how much I owe to begin with
23:32:01 <jwinterm> I actually had the experience a couple times as a grad student where I filed, then they got back to me and told me I missed a credit, and told me to amend and I got a few hundred bucks more back
23:32:17 <jwinterm> gg irs
23:32:28 <IRS> yes
23:32:36 <sgp_> Lol
23:32:38 <jwinterm> not now, now I hate you
23:32:39 <jwinterm> sry
23:33:05 <IRS> :(
23:34:19 <sgp_> midipoet: would it blow your mind if I told you we can use LIFO? Haha
23:35:05 <sgp_> afaik that's not allowed in Europe