00:00:45 <dsc_> hehe :)
00:01:55 <rehrar> Any other comments on this idea?
00:02:40 <camthegeek> roll back time. host a shoutcast station. get real dj's to live mix music. do talk shows over it.
00:03:45 <dsc_> I think the work involved is underestimated and will take both technical and legal expertise
00:05:44 <selsta> ^
00:05:56 <niocbrrrrrr> sometimes visuals are nice with the songs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNfp33CTDps
00:05:56 <monerobux> [ YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
00:07:16 <bemore> I don't know backgrounds for users here, I assume the proposer will have a qualifying project history
00:24:24 <bemore> If music is kept in the public domain, it looks like we could set up a 24/7 internet radio service with Open Broadcast Software and a reliable server.. not something I'm familiar with but it looks like fairly straightforward.. there are guides online. Is there a community server already paid for that can be used for random projects like this? I personally think the .fm TLD is too expensive, there
00:24:36 <bemore> are ones available for much less, but that depends on donor wishes, I guess.
00:58:43 <sgp_> I mostly agree with dsc_
00:58:50 <sgp_> In any case you would need an LLC
00:59:47 <sgp_> I doubt people would pay for higher bitrate tbh
01:00:08 <sgp_> Hardly anyone will pay for more than 320
01:00:40 <sgp_> So you would need sponsors
01:01:23 <sgp_> Plus ideally you would have recurring Monero shows, and which point I'll ask why these aren't on YouTube
01:01:58 <sgp_> That said, the community coming together to select music and other content is pretty fun
01:05:21 <sgp_> Also why audio instead of video
01:08:33 <sgp_> Revenue opportunity: the free 1/mo Twitch Prime memberships from Amazon Prime
01:43:53 <cassact[m]1> bemore: capsul.org is my go to for servers. although thats mostly cuz im part of the computer club that runs it.
01:44:48 <cassact[m]1> I've got a spare vps with some unused bandwidth if you want to tinker around with  the project before going mainstream.
01:44:50 <rehrar> sgp_: why is an LLC needed?
01:46:45 <sgp_> It's absolutely worth facing the licensing companies as an entity, plus separate finances
01:46:49 <cassact[m]1> IMO liability reasons. Helps you not go bankrupt if you get sued.
01:47:58 <sgp_> That also :)
01:48:25 <sgp_> Accidentally fuck up the licensing somehow? This helps protect your personal assets
01:50:00 <cassact[m]1> Depends on where you live, but at least where i live making an LLC is easy and cheap, easier then getting a bank account even.
01:50:24 <cassact[m]1> although they stopped letting people pay in cash in person which is a bummer.
01:50:24 <sgp_> Wyoming is the gold standard
01:52:03 <cassact[m]1> For privacy focused LLCs yeah, but it can be more expensive then just registering one in your own name in your home state because you have to pay for a registered agent. and none of the ones I found in WY accept crypt : (
01:52:28 <cassact[m]1> crypto*
01:53:51 <sgp_> Prepaid debit?
01:55:42 <cassact[m]1> tbh i've never gone that route. Have you had success incorporating an LLC with a prepaid debit card?
02:20:18 <sgp_> I just used my credit card
02:20:37 <sgp_> I'm sure they would take a prepaid debit though. Idk why not
02:20:54 <sgp_> The registered agent still needs info on file for you though
02:30:07 <sgp_> needmoney90: what would the schedule look like? And why radio over a Twitch stream or something?
02:32:18 <needmoney90> Radio over a twitch stream has licensing concerns as well. This is kind of like a jukebox for project participants to use, or a general broadcast stream that people can tune into for whatever
02:32:41 <needmoney90> And if there's issues with the domain cost I'll eat it myself
02:32:45 <needmoney90> (already did)
02:32:56 <needmoney90> wouldn't have mentioned the name we wanted unless we'd already gotten it
02:33:47 <sgp_> So you can stream radio on your site for cheaper than streaming audio on Twitch?
02:33:49 <needmoney90> Schedule is up in the air for the moment, though during non-scheduled hours it can shuffle the library
02:34:21 <needmoney90> Twitch could be an alt destination, but having a site for playstats/requests/catalogue and stuff is kinda important
02:34:31 <needmoney90> even with a twitch page you'd want a site for all that anyways
02:35:30 <sgp_> Probably easier to build a community on Twitch no? And have a bot take requests from there?
02:35:33 <needmoney90> The point stands that server costs will end up being a fraction of the total costs (sub-10%)
02:35:43 <needmoney90> And it makes us look more professional
02:35:47 <needmoney90> a twitch stream radio is eh imo
02:36:24 <needmoney90> the majority of the costs are licensing related, and will have to be eaten regardless of where we host it
02:36:26 <sgp_> I'm just thinking of all out current OC, and it's only about 4 hours of content a month between the Coffee Chats and Monero Talk
02:36:50 <needmoney90> The existence of outlets can generate supply of content
02:37:27 <needmoney90> its mostly filler music, with a lot of space for 'stuff', whatever we want to put in it
02:37:51 <needmoney90> 'filler music' being a vetted community member (no trolls) selected jukebox
02:37:58 <needmoney90> and shuffle otherwise
02:38:37 <sgp_> Got ir
02:38:38 <sgp_> *it
02:40:08 <sgp_> You would only need 90 Twitch subs a month to cover your hosting/license costs :p
02:42:49 <bemore> Twitch is a lot of fun, they used to be just for games but are growing quite fast
02:42:54 <needmoney90> I dont think thats very professional tbh
02:42:57 <needmoney90> I do like twitch
02:43:10 <needmoney90> but I think for this kind of thing having a self-hosted site with all our bells and whistles would be better
02:43:21 <sgp_> I'm just thinking of a proven engagement platform that also supports video
02:43:48 <sgp_> Movie nights could be fun for example
02:44:10 <sgp_> Plus live chat is a huge reason to participate
02:45:06 <needmoney90> While true, having a voice-only stream is really nice to hook up to my car or blast from my phone while im doing other stuff
02:45:23 <needmoney90> Voice-first, or voice-only is important to me
02:45:32 <needmoney90> A video system is a different proposal
02:45:42 <needmoney90> Would be neat, but its not what im going for here
02:46:07 <sgp_> All right
02:47:13 <bemore> doesn't sound very community controlled to me :P
02:48:54 <needmoney90> :) it is.
03:14:18 <hpfr[m]> support an open streaming platform :D https://joinpeertube.org/roadmap
03:17:37 <rehrar> twitch is also kind of a terrible company
03:18:09 <rehrar> one big question is why we're lining other people's pockets when we can make our own moneh!
03:18:23 <needmoney90> shh rehrar we agreed we wouldnt talk about the embezzlement in public
03:19:17 <sgp_> Lol
03:19:36 <rehrar> it's a chicken and egg problem
03:19:46 <sgp_> rehrar: I offered needmoney90 an LLC of mine by DM if you want me to help set up a lot of the legal stuff
03:19:52 <rehrar> if there are no good outlets, there will be no content. If there is no good content, we don't need outlets.
03:20:18 <sgp_> For how little it costs and how much engagement potential there is, I support the idea
03:20:18 <needmoney90> backroom deals for 33% of the company
12:43:40 <ErCiccione[m]> FYI: i have a temporary laptop which i'm almost done setting up. My work on the website and everything else should start again tomorrow. At a slower pace, because i couldn't recover all my WIP PRs, templates and todos
13:29:05 <msvb-lab> Reminder of Saturday's Monero Village (MV) meeting at #monero-defcon at 18:00 UTC.
14:14:42 <selsta> re radio: I think what makes #wownero-music fun is that it’s casual, building a professional radio is going to take significant resources and might take the fun out of it
14:56:43 <camthegeek> Oh, someone in Monero wants a radio because Wownero did it.
14:56:49 <camthegeek> That makes Wownero the leader now.
14:59:27 <asymptotically> camthegeek: shows who the real innovators are ;)
15:00:22 <camthegeek> if core funds a monero-radio, core should fund wownero too
15:04:54 <sarang> I wrote up a blog post to announce the results of the CLSAG audit and would like input and comments
15:05:07 <sarang> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/6Vdcc6ZR/clsag.md
15:05:56 <sarang> It's not ready to post yet, since the final audit report is not quite ready yet
15:06:43 <sarang> I'm also getting updated verification time numbers from the most recent code
15:07:05 <sarang> (waiting on a build)
15:07:47 <sarang> Not sure if the stuff about security models is too in-the-weeds for this type of post
15:08:02 <sarang> But I did want to note that CLSAG has a much more robust security model than (M)LSAG
15:09:55 <selsta> "more security" -> good
15:10:30 <sarang> I thought about making a note that MLSAG almost certainly falls under the new security model too, since it is very similar in design to CLSAG
15:10:54 <sarang> So the fact that CLSAG is proven under a better security model does not mean MLSAG is less secure in practice
15:11:11 <sarang> It just didn't seem worthwhile to backport all the proofs
15:11:37 <sarang> Worth putting this into the post?
15:12:41 <selsta> too technical, I would leave it out
15:13:14 <sarang> How about the security model stuff that's currently in the post?
15:13:26 <sarang> about hypothetical attackers and such
15:13:32 <sarang> Too technical?
15:15:32 <selsta> I like the current text but let’s see what others say
15:17:20 <sarang> While I'm here, a quick update on the audit process...
15:17:31 <sarang> Both stages of the audit are complete, as mentioned in the post
15:17:45 <bemore> line 14: build->built. makes sense to me for the most part
15:17:49 <sarang> I've already posted a revised preprint to the IACR archive that incorporates chanegs
15:18:05 <sarang> (thanks bemore; good catch)
15:18:14 <sarang> No code changes are needed
15:18:38 <sarang> I'm in discussions with the reviewers on their initial draft of the audit report, to correct minor errors
15:19:16 <sarang> I'll write up a more technical document that explains the preprint updates in response to their suggestions... the reviewers want to leave their report as-is, covering the original version
15:19:37 <sarang> but they'll note that the changes do properly address the report suggestions
15:20:05 <sarang> Then we can coordinate with OSTIF (who post audit reports too) to make the report publicly available, and link to it in the blog post
15:20:27 <sarang> The code will need to be rebased before deployment, of course
16:04:26 <sarang> Oh, perhaps someone could make a nice graphic to show the size/time benefits?
16:04:57 <sarang> My plots look fine for scientific papers, but don't look sleek enough for blog posts :/
16:33:52 <sarang> Updated blog post (now on GitHub as a private gist): https://gist.github.com/SarangNoether/e7bc586d0efd89f74d29b62cc372eeb4
16:34:48 <dEBRUYNE> re: a cool name, don't think it is too late
16:34:54 <dEBRUYNE> Someone will have to come up with something though :p
16:36:55 <dEBRUYNE> sarang: 'underlying cryptographic plumbing', that may be ambiguous to some, why not use underlying cryptography?
16:37:05 <sarang> fair enough
16:37:12 <sarang> I like the term "cryptographic plumbing" =p
16:37:30 <sarang> It's a nice polite way to say "I'm not going to explain this, and you probably don't want me to"
16:39:22 <dEBRUYNE> :-P
16:39:26 <dEBRUYNE> Looks good otherwise (the post)
16:39:31 <sarang> updated
16:39:56 <sarang> The intro paragraphs will be updated with the report link when it's made available, of course
16:48:26 <dEBRUYNE> Ok cool
16:48:35 <dEBRUYNE> Who else is in favor of a name change (or addition)?
16:49:57 <sgp_> sarang: here are my suggested changes https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/5DFt8sXq/CLSAG_Audit_Results_Justin_Redline.docx
16:50:33 <sgp_> note I did not read any of the comments in chat before redlining
16:54:15 <ErCiccione[m]> I wouldn't change name. We already mention it multiple times and people could find useful questions/answers looking for that name. Does it really matter the name?
16:54:36 <ErCiccione[m]>  * I wouldn't change name. We already mention it multiple times and people could find useful questions/answers looking for that name. Does the name really matter?
17:05:18 <sarang> I was only half-serious about the name
17:05:24 <sarang> it does not really matter
17:36:13 <gingeropolous> the protocol formerly known as CLSAG
17:36:15 <gingeropolous> done and done
17:58:54 <sarang> heh
18:53:53 <needmoney90> When do we get our PPP loan
19:14:43 <rehrar> sgp_: I need to use the Monero Community youtube for the retry of the Locha Mesh thing today.
19:14:55 <sgp_> sure
19:14:58 <sgp_> need any help?
19:15:32 <rehrar> nah, I think I'm good. Thanks.
19:15:45 <sgp_> kk thanks for letting me know. hopefully it goes well
19:17:31 <rehrar> oof, we need a thumbnail?
19:17:36 <rehrar> ok, I'll whip something up real quick
19:47:01 <lza_menace> is there a way for me to "subscribe" to info about these various conferences?
19:47:14 <lza_menace> konferenko, 36c3. defcon, etc
19:48:27 <lza_menace> is there a mailing list or something I could receive emails rather than have to crawl reddit? or other places?
19:54:52 <rehrar> sgp_: can't get livestream to work on communityworkgroup jitsi
19:54:57 <rehrar> it says it failed to start
19:55:07 <rehrar> for sake of time I'll use regular jitsi, but in the future I'll have you show me how to do it
19:55:34 <sgp_> it does not work. I use OBS to screen capture from the community Jitsi
19:55:38 <rehrar> gotcha
20:04:16 <rehrar> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe9Buhp9OD8
20:04:16 <monerobux> [ YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
20:04:19 <rehrar> if anyone wants to see it live
20:34:18 <rehrar> sarang: change name
20:34:22 <rehrar> CLSAD :(
20:45:22 <rehrar> done
23:11:46 <xmrscott[m]> lza_menace: Good point, typically meta and reddit are only the real ways, although there is a community calendar of sorts as well
23:12:18 <xmrscott[m]> Could always do a website blog post when we get 'confirmed' by host entity
23:12:44 <xmrscott[m]> But you're going to have 'noise' their too w/ meeting minutes I think
23:13:07 <xmrscott[m]> Not sure if the rss is capable of breaking by category or something
23:22:02 <xmrscott[m]> Re: radio.... sidenote: Was a radio DJ for like 5 years. Sadly don't remember the auto queue and auto call sign software offhand we used, but...