02:08:44 <hyc> nice, that was my first choice
02:27:17 <hyc> doesn't tie in directly to dandelions, but there's still an obscuring effect in nebulas
02:27:27 <hyc> just look at Star Trek II - Wrath of Khan
02:27:40 <hyc> maybe we should have called Danelion++ "Nebula Protocol"
03:59:28 <xmrscott[m]> I actually voted for Nemesis because of Star Trek TNG, but Nebula is probably less menacing
04:32:19 <gingeropolous> ah the classifier didn't make it
04:32:34 <gingeropolous> or whatever the N thing was
05:37:31 <neoflux[m]> So anyone wanna work on Moneros CryptoTV?
05:39:36 <neoflux[m]> I'm thinking about setting it up with Jibri and connecting it with a p2p file system like IPFS https://github.com/jitsi/jibri
11:11:45 <ErCiccione[m]> The Moneropedia on Getmonero is more like a I2Pedia at the moment. A lot of entries are related to Kovri or I2P. I want to remove them, please read https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/910#issuecomment-628562953 and comment if you have an opinion.
11:15:25 <neoflux[m]> What about this IPLD? Could that be implemented instead? It's fast https://ipld.io
11:16:33 <neoflux[m]>  * What about this IPLD? Could that be implemented instead I2P? It's fast https://ipld.io
11:17:15 <neoflux[m]>  * What about this IPLD? Could that be implemented instead of I2P? It's fast https://ipld.io
11:19:15 <ErCiccione[m]> I never heard of ipld, but there are many projects that could be integrated. The problem are: does it worth to implement it? and who is going to do it? Most of the people suggest to "integrate" this or that technology but nobody actually propose to practically do it or propose it
11:21:49 <neoflux[m]> Well you said you are thinking about doing it and asked my opinion
11:22:38 <neoflux[m]> Isn't I2P slow?
11:24:13 <ErCiccione[m]> I asked an opinion about removing moneropedia entries from getmonero. How is that related to "What about this IPLD? Could that be implemented instead of I2P?"?
11:24:52 <neoflux[m]> Yes, I gave you an opinion.
11:25:57 <neoflux[m]> IPFS is an anonymous censorship-resistant, peer to peer communication layer just like I2P
11:25:59 <dEBRUYNE> <sgp_> looks like Nitrogen Nebula will take it <= When should we close the poll and announce the winner?
14:00:41 <BMO-noire> this tari this has me confused... will this digital asset thing essentially be able to replace Bisq as an exchange?
14:00:46 <BMO-noire> thing^
14:02:28 <BMO-noire> if it really is a decentralized unsupervised exchange of any digital asset, what's to keep it from getting filled with child porn
14:06:46 <neoflux[m]> Yeah that is a problem. I just checked out this one promising Youtube alternative today and there was rough anal sex on the front page under "new videos"
14:09:46 <BMO-noire> wasn't that project a scam?
14:10:43 <neoflux[m]> Which project?
14:11:00 <BMO-noire> I assume you mean bit.tube
14:12:31 <neoflux[m]> I don't know if I want to tell you. This is kinda valuable information if you're thinking about creating a better site.
14:13:18 <BMO-noire> hm? I'm just wondering what's up with Tari
14:13:25 <BMO-noire> and if it will actually be a replacement to Bisq
14:13:31 <UkoeHB_> "creating a better site"
14:13:48 <BMO-noire> Bisq used to give me stability issues but I guess it might be okay to use now
14:13:56 <BMO-noire> has anyone tried it on a linux system lately?
14:14:42 <neoflux[m]> There is certainly like some kind of secure video streaming platform boom going on now right now.
14:15:08 <neoflux[m]>  * There is certainly like some kind of secure video streaming platform boom going on right now.
14:16:27 <BMO-noire> *he's not actually talking to me is he*
14:17:58 <selsta> BMO-noire: Tari is still in development for a while, too early to tell what will be possible with it.
14:19:26 <BMO-noire> okay, that explains the vague things I see, then
14:19:30 <BMO-noire> thank ya
14:49:48 <oofa> I can no longer compile monerod. It fails at around 46% with C++ errors. Can anyone assist?
14:51:28 <BMO-noire> paste and share your error messages, someone will probably be able to help: https://paste.debian.net/
14:58:35 <selsta> oofa: which OS?
15:31:33 <sgp_> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/qRc4jiFN/naming_results
15:31:57 <sgp_> 1) Nitrogen Nebula, 2) Nitrogen Nova, 3) Nitrogen Neptune, 4) Nitrogen Nemesis
15:33:29 <sgp_> poll is now closed
15:51:16 <TrasherDK> sgp_: You can't close now. My voting bot is not ready yet.
15:51:25 <sgp_> too bad
15:51:35 <TrasherDK> :D
15:53:38 <TrasherDK> I think my votes was 4,1,2 and 3.
15:57:11 <dEBRUYNE> sgp_: Do you want to announce the result?
15:57:29 <sgp_> nah :p
16:00:44 <sarang> Now on to the next naming, with Oxygen
16:02:33 <sarang> Perhaps go with Omicron, as in Omicron Persei 8 from Futurama
16:13:34 <xmrscott[m]> Omicron has my vote this fall
16:17:57 <asymptotically> hurray, i'm glad that the bestest name won
16:56:45 <oofa> Hi folks here is the build failure that I am seeing: https://paste.debian.net/1146754/
17:19:08 <selsta> needbrrrrrrr90: problem is that they rewrote the code in Go
17:19:32 <selsta> so it is more difficult to prove that they are violating the license
17:19:49 <needbrrrrrrr90> There's clear large swaths of code that are lifted straight up, like comments
17:20:18 <needbrrrrrrr90> It's very clear imo where it came from.
17:20:26 <selsta> right, it is obvious that it’s not a clean room implementation
17:20:39 <needbrrrrrrr90> Which means a strike claim is valid
17:20:46 <needbrrrrrrr90> Just point to one of the thousands of comments
17:21:18 <hyc> selsta: they copied most of the comments literally, which proves the derivation of their code
17:21:32 <needbrrrrrrr90> That's my point, the strike claim is undeniable
17:21:35 <hyc> that's sufficient grounds for copyright infringement
17:22:07 <hyc> replacing our license with their own is a clear breach of license
17:22:22 <selsta> > but some developers who hold different views have left (including me).
17:22:25 <selsta> so he is not a developer?
17:22:43 <needbrrrrrrr90> If they want to pretend they're totally new, throw the book at them
17:22:55 <needbrrrrrrr90> They can't get our tech and pretend they're novel, that's scamming noobs
17:23:06 <needbrrrrrrr90> Leave the license in or get the book thrown at you imo
17:23:20 <needbrrrrrrr90> Cite your sources, we did enough damn work on it
17:23:50 <hyc> exactly
17:24:31 <needbrrrrrrr90> So, who do we talk to to sic (pun intended) github on them
17:24:41 <hyc> the medium link in that post has been shutdown
17:24:52 <hyc> this https://medium.com/@mmbbcc88/code-will-not-lie-dero-project-copy-monero-code-no-chance-to-be-mainstream-project-9c936d5e198e
17:25:03 <needbrrrrrrr90> Hmmm
17:25:08 <needbrrrrrrr90> Any archives?
17:27:17 <oofa>  does anyone know why monerod isn't compiling when it reaches C++ that uses _1 and _2?
17:29:02 <selsta> oofa: which OS?
17:29:20 <selsta> your GCC compiler might be too old
17:29:30 <oofa> slackware linux pre-15, so it's new software
17:29:50 <oofa> gcc version 9.3.0
17:29:54 <selsta> should be ok
17:30:04 <selsta> master branch?
17:30:11 <selsta> which boost version?
17:30:29 <oofa> i tried master branch as well as the recommended tag
17:30:46 <oofa> boost-1.73.0
17:30:52 <selsta> yes, I think that’s too new
17:30:58 <selsta> someone else also had problems with boost 1.4
17:31:00 <selsta> 1.73*
17:31:04 <selsta> 1.72 works
17:31:04 <ErCiccione[m]> needbrrrrrrr90: maybe would be good to open an issue on their github, but that project looks dead anyway
17:31:21 <oofa> oh OK I'll downgrade thanks
17:32:11 <oofa> BTW what is the recommended way to mine Monero these days? I have a Core i5 laptop.
17:32:30 <needbrrrrrrr90> ErCiccione[m]: dead on gh or not, the coins still circulate. A missing gh project could motivate some to not buy.
17:32:55 <selsta> I think it’s best to ignore them, have made the mistake to argue with them on Twitter in the past
17:33:07 <selsta> they are irrelevant small anyway
17:33:09 <needbrrrrrrr90> Can't we just report to gh
17:33:14 <needbrrrrrrr90> And be done
17:33:19 <needbrrrrrrr90> No arguing with them needed
17:33:24 <selsta> find code that you can prove is copied
17:33:43 <selsta> and then the original author of the code has to write a DMCA
17:33:47 <selsta> and most likely they don’t care
17:33:50 <needbrrrrrrr90> Just search for references to Monero in their code lol
17:33:53 <ErCiccione[m]> yeah i think i understimated it. I thought was dead, but it actually have some market volume.I'm more pissed because they don't give credits
17:33:58 <needbrrrrrrr90> There's thousands
17:34:15 <needbrrrrrrr90> They didn't even bother to replace instances of Monero with dero
17:34:27 <hyc> where's their repo?
17:34:31 <needbrrrrrrr90> If that's not a smoking gun...
17:34:54 <ErCiccione[m]> hyc: https://github.com/deroproject/derosuite
17:35:17 <ErCiccione[m]> let's open a scary issue
17:35:28 <needbrrrrrrr90> Just report it
17:35:36 <selsta> you can’t just report something
17:35:49 <selsta> having "monero" in the code is not reportable
17:36:17 <selsta> like I said, the original author of the code has to write a DMCA
17:36:22 <selsta> (like hyc did once with sumokoin)
17:36:36 <ErCiccione[m]> yeah and they would create another repo anyway
17:36:44 <selsta> he clearly mentioned the affected lines of code
17:37:30 <hyc> do we have a paper trail showing we have contacted the project themselves already to fix this?
17:37:54 <selsta> e.g. it was clear in the randomx repo that they copied it 1 to 1
17:38:00 <selsta> but tevador didn’t care (which is ok)
17:41:51 <needbrrrrrrr90> April 20th in -PoW you guys discussed this
17:42:01 <selsta> yep
17:42:03 <needbrrrrrrr90> Around noon
17:42:11 <selsta> but tevador would have to write a DMCA and he does not want to
17:42:17 <selsta> so there is nothing we can report
17:44:54 <hyc> it seems they don't use their randomX port anyway
17:45:12 <selsta> yep
17:49:03 <hyc> what components have they copied from? ringct, bulletproofs?
17:49:17 <hyc> prob the MRL guys would have the standing to file a DMCA complaint
17:49:32 <selsta> moneromooo is the author of the code and he sure isn’t going to write a DMCA
17:49:59 <hyc> well if he's not, then that's the end of the matter
17:50:29 <hyc> only actual authors/owners of the code can file a complaint
17:50:38 <sarang> The bulletproof code seems to be a relatively 1-1 translation of Monero code to Go
17:50:47 <sarang> in terms of structure, function names, etc.
17:51:09 <sarang> Including comment structure that I wrote
17:51:29 <sarang> I don't know what this implies in terms of license, though
17:51:40 <selsta> well if you want to dmca them :D I thought moneromooo wrote the bp code from your pseudo code
17:51:42 <hyc> license and copyright are separate but related
17:52:22 <hyc> first, you establish that you are original author of piece of code. the fact you'e not credited means your copyright has been violated
17:52:28 <sarang> mooo used my original java code to write the BP implementation
17:52:32 <sarang> and I made some updates after that
17:52:36 <sarang> a few different times
17:52:48 <hyc> as owner of the code, you're the only one allowed to decide what license applies to it
17:53:07 <hyc> so when they changed the license, they violated your rights again, as well as violating the original license
17:53:22 <sarang> Again, I didn't write the vast majority of the Monero C++ BP implementation; mooo did
17:53:43 <sarang> But I would be extremely surprised if the Dero implementation was not a 1-1 translation
17:53:53 <sarang> given the comments, function names, structure, etc.
17:54:05 <hyc> the fact that you wrote any of it is sufficient, if mooo isn't going to do anything
17:54:58 <hyc> if mooo basically just translated your java code to C++, then you're still the original author, and the C++ is a derivative work
17:55:09 <sarang> mooo does credit me in the C++ implementation
17:55:29 <hyc> ok, that's good
17:55:30 <sarang> and I personally have no issues with the Java -> C++ translation that mooo did, of course
17:55:33 <selsta> you can first open an issue, point out code / comments that you are the original author of and ask them to add your copyright
17:55:56 <hyc> adding his copyright isn't sufficient, since they changed the license and have no authority to do so
17:56:16 <selsta> yep, only their code is allowed to be under the research license
17:56:19 <hyc> but certainly, opening an issue is the first step
17:56:47 <ErCiccione[m]> why it's important who created the actual code? isn't everything related to who hold the license, so "the monero project"? I don't know much about licensing. I'mhonestly curious
17:58:23 <sarang> TBH I'm not really interested in opening myself up to likely harassment by pushing this issue to them
17:58:33 <hyc> "the monero project" isn't an actual organization, will never have legal representatives in a law suit
17:59:03 <sarang> and I don't personally have an issue with another project using the structure of the code, which was a fairly direct translation of the math from the original BP preprint
17:59:16 <selsta> sarang: FWIW I have argued with someone on Twitter once and they have harassed / spammed we for weeks so that I had block everyone
17:59:30 <selsta> me*
17:59:39 <hyc> if you're not interested in asserting your copyright, then again, end of story
17:59:44 <sarang> got it
18:00:57 <hyc> most of the code I've written in the monero source tree, I've left out my own copyright claims, so it just says Monero Project
18:01:13 <hyc> the major exception is the bundled copy of LMDB source
18:01:30 <sarang> I generally don't assert copyright in my code, but have a repo-wide license (GPL IIRC)
18:01:43 <sarang> and I'd be fine with public domain to the extent possible
18:02:44 <selsta> The thing with Dero is that they claim they are the original author and they also change the license to a restrictive "view only" license
18:03:08 <selsta> so that other projects are not allowed to use it
18:03:14 <hyc> but US copyright law doesn't require you to register copyrights for them to be valid, so it's still sufficient to prove authorship via git commit history
18:03:29 <hyc> you still automatically own anything you wrote...
18:03:43 <sarang> How does this apply to language translations?
18:04:00 <hyc> translations are derivative works
18:04:03 <selsta> it’s like translating a book
18:04:09 <hyc> original owner is still the owner
18:04:11 <selsta> you don’t suddenly become the original author
18:04:17 <sarang> It appears that Dero has a few different BP approaches that could be considered novel (I am not a lawyer)
18:04:40 <hyc> yes, I saw that. naturally you can't claim ownership of anything they actually wrote themselves
18:04:47 <sarang> But FWIW I am just asking out of curiosity; I have no interest in being part of a copyright kerfuffle
18:05:27 <sarang> My code was a translation of the math, etc.
18:05:35 <hyc> I don't see this as much of a controversy. you can clearly identify comments you wrote, code structure that you defined
18:06:05 <sarang> Fair enough. But it sounds like this could lead to harassment and other irritation that I would prefer to avoid
18:06:08 <hyc> if they want to pull the license out from under you, they should be forced to do a total cleanroom rewrite
18:07:03 <hyc> taking open source code and claiming it as your own and denying others the right to use it is BS and should not be tolerated
18:07:05 <sarang> and the fact that Dero appears to have translated from mooo's code (and not my Java code) seems a bit of an additional stretch
18:07:19 <sarang> I get that hyc, but I also don't want to be targeted for this
18:07:29 <sarang> and I realize that this should also be considered unacceptable, but it is what it is
18:11:20 <hyc> oh well
19:22:56 <xmrscott[m]> needbrrrrrrr90: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nmX4bw1BN8EJ:https://medium.com/%40mmbbcc88/code-will-not-lie-dero-project-copy-monero-code-no-chance-to-be-mainstream-project-9c936d5e198e+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
19:23:12 <xmrscott[m]> For when there's no Archive, Google cache (or something similar). :)
19:26:08 <xmrscott[m]> Assuming they lifted the translations as well, I can always file a DMCA against the translated part of it
19:26:27 <xmrscott[m]> (If no one who's done the C++, QML, etc is interested in filing)
19:26:49 <xmrscott[m]> Assuming I have that right. Not sure I would qualify as an owner of the code
19:33:24 <xmrscott[m]> Cache is being a bit spazzy, will show article and then the error code. Here's what a snap of it looks like. If people really want to I can see if there's a clever way to pause the DOM or something before it goes to the error code
19:33:46 * xmrscott[m] uploaded an image: image.png (330KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/nsOsdAYvdTAnYVpXzXxpNYRA >
19:33:56 <xmrscott[m]> (to get the full article text)
19:35:34 <xmrscott[m]> Copy of article found here: https://deroscam.tumblr.com/
19:39:03 <xmrscott[m]> Archive taken of tumblr, found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200514193732/https://deroscam.tumblr.com/
19:39:14 <xmrscott[m]>  * Just took archive taken of tumblr, found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200514193732/https://deroscam.tumblr.com/
19:39:23 <xmrscott[m]>  * Just took archive of tumblr, found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200514193732/https://deroscam.tumblr.com/
19:42:33 <hyc> cool
19:42:47 <hyc> they seem to have a lot more problems than just DMCA issues
19:43:02 <hyc> someone really ought to do a DMCA takedown and put them out of their misery
19:44:10 <camthegeek> they'll just keep using their self-hosted git
19:44:41 <hyc> hm. maybe. can also serve a DMCA notice to their hosting provider or ISP
19:44:58 <xmrscott[m]> Then take it to their server host or domain registar /shrug
19:45:28 <camthegeek> worldstream.nl for their private git host
19:45:29 <hyc> anyway, none of this is my code, so I'll shut up
19:47:53 <sarang> Is it really worth the trouble?
19:48:04 <hyc> reading thru that tumblr site, anybody who watches the garbage the Dero guys have pulled and still puts their money on it deserves to lose it
19:48:29 <hyc> "2. The Dero project suddenly announced that the Atlantis version will continue to support ASIC. It is wrong to resist ASIC. Most people in the community have collapsed, and those who bought the CPU are in a bad mood. What is even more unacceptable is that because the Dero project has always passed that Dero will resist ASIC, the price of Dero has been rising, and the sudden announcement of support for ASIC has caused the price of Dero to fall from 3 to 0.5
19:48:33 <xmrscott[m]> I can't find any localization doing basic grepping of derosuite / gui wallet that I'd have a claim with, unless I've missed the files somehow
19:49:23 <hyc> this project is dishonest from square 1. lying about origin of code, lying about ASIC resistance
19:50:40 <xmrscott[m]> For me at least, it's relatively little trouble / time. I have a legal firm on retainer service that costs a flat $20 /month. If I can use it to benefit the Monero project by getting scams taken down, that's value returned on my subscription
19:53:16 <xmrscott[m]> However, no localization from what I can tell, so none of my contributions have been violated
20:38:14 <neoflux[m]> How about an own Social Media platform for the Monero community?  Hydra is now open-source. https://www.addthis.com/blog/2014/01/23/hydra-is-now-open-source/
20:45:34 <xmrscott[m]> Hydra seems more like a SIEM than a SNS. If one wanted a social media platform that's FOSS and self owned, you could always host a private Mastodon instance
20:47:37 <neoflux[m]> Yeah that was my original option actually until I started looking at Hydra. I heard this Pleroma is like "a more efficient Mastodon" https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/
20:58:48 <xmrscott[m]> Hmm, yes looks like it has a less complex stack. Instance count is about 1/4 of Mastodon based, but they interop. Will have to see if any of the Mastodon communities I engage with have a Pleroma instance...
21:06:18 <neoflux[m]> It's really new. Also the backend is built with built with Elixir and Phoenix instead of Ruby on Rails https://pleroma.social/
21:15:45 <neoflux[m]>  * It's really new. Also the backend is built with Elixir and Phoenix instead of Ruby on Rails https://pleroma.social/