15:41:52 Hi 16:18:33 needmonero90: My mistake is probably to think that somebody who makes racist statements is universally considered a despicable person. Sadly, this sitaton made me realize that it't not the case. I refuse the notion that using the word "despicable" in this context means "dictating consensus" or that "doesn't reflect decentralized ethos". 16:21:00 Or avoid stepping in, if that's your thing -> I step in, if nobody else does and i will keep doing it. 16:21:34 I would appreciate removing emotivd language from our minutes. 16:21:43 Despicable is an unnecessary and charged word. 16:22:03 Emotive* 16:22:21 What other word would you prefer? 16:22:48 Just 'an individual' is fine 16:22:55 His transgressions are covered in the next lines 16:25:04 I think this is a pointless change, but i will do it, just because all this drama already consumed my liver. 16:25:43 Thank you 16:26:18 It will make the discussion hopefully more focused on the actual issues at hand 16:29:11 When is the meeting? 18utc? 16:30:19 It won't make any difference. That's why i was ok with changing it (even if how i said, it's disappointing) 16:30:20 yes 16:32:13 Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade 16:32:41 that's exactly my point. Being neutral for the sake of it is just wrong 16:32:47 we're not a government. we're not bound to give freedom of speech to everyone. 16:33:10 You can't remain neutral in hte face of oppression, that just puts you on the side of the oppressors 16:33:51 my liver feels a bit better now, thanks hyc 17:28:25 Meeting about /r/moneromining and quality of the monero chats happening in this channel in ~30 minutes 17:28:39 sgp_ binaryfate needmonero90 ^ 17:29:12 Thanks for the ping 17:30:14 Thx 17:30:32 dEBRUYNE as well 17:30:36 And gingeropolous 17:30:48 Since this involves the /r/Monero sidebar and stuff 17:40:18 Hyc while I agree, I do not think the agenda of a meeting should be subjective. I'm fine with it happening in the meeting, but the agenda has, in my mind, some expectation of objectivity/laying out the points of discussion, and not picking sides 17:45:51 I guess, in this instance, I agree. the wording in the agenda was unnecessary 17:47:15 Fair to say that it was unnecessary, if that's the feeling. I refuse to accept that it's something subjective. 17:49:23 Good/evil *are* inherently subjective 17:50:32 I think most of the world agreed that the Nazis were evil 17:50:42 I mean, that was kind of the point of a world war 17:51:07 I don't disagree 17:51:41 Most of the world did agree on that - but that doesn't make it objective 17:51:51 Unless morality is a democratic system or something 17:52:14 if that's not the same as mob rule, maybe 17:52:48 Clearly if most people believe something it must be objective 17:53:08 I think we can assert that you have the freedom to live life as you wish, as long as that doesn't involve preventing anyone else from living their lives as they wish 17:53:24 The lines get blurred, even with that 17:54:17 Morality is unfortunately not a solved, objective problem 17:54:30 That's definitely an interesting discussion, but more philosophical than practical. With philosophy anything is possible, even the fact that an arrow thrown from a bow doesn;t actually move. so... 17:55:16 My point being, good and evil are generally a consensus thing, and a meeting agenda for a meeting to determine consensus is not the right place for those decisions to be pre judged 17:55:28 As much as we know the direction it will likely go 17:55:38 yeah, I agree with that. about not pre-judging. 17:55:44 I need to preemptively say before the meeting that if this discussion is about the philosophy of making a decision for three hours, I'm going to lose it 17:55:50 It wont be. 17:56:03 just to clarify: this thing has not even started yet, right? 17:56:08 Not yet. 17:56:09 right. 17:56:22 we're just making the popcorn right now 17:56:31 🍿 17:56:34 salted or sweet? 17:56:46 As much as we know the direction it will likely go -> well, what's direction? an arrow is completely still in every single moment, if you take "a moment" as a measurement unit 17:56:47 neither. basic bitch 🍿 17:56:55 funny you phrased it like that, hyc. ;) 17:56:55 alright i'll stop here :P 17:57:44 ErCiccione: I would have appreciated a ping for this btw. just stumbled across it on the devlish irc channel 17:58:38 sorry M5M400, i didn't ping all the people involved just the people who were directly involved in the organization of the meeting 17:59:01 not like I'm mod in both of your main pain points... 17:59:07 oh wait.. .I am :) 17:59:53 We have public agendas on github for a reason ;) 18:00:10 alright here we are 18:00:16 merry meetingmas 18:00:37 Thanks everybody for being here to discuss this unpleasant subject. The agenda is here: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/433 and the points in discussion are two: 18:00:51 - Moving away from /r/moneromining after the recent events (see description of this PR: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/monero-site/merge_requests/1195) 18:00:58 - Discussion about the quality of the Monero chats, some of which are lightly moderated and higly off topic 18:01:13 Before we start i have to point out that when i called out the racist description in #Monero-pools, which i erroneously considered the official chat of /r/moneromining (My misunderstanding was caused by the fact that the chat was near the word 'official' in the top of the page when seen from the old reddit. The issue has been fixed since) 18:01:30 i was fiercley attacked by some of the active people in the chat, especially by a single person: rottensox, who defended the racist chat description, doubled down using racist slang and repeatedly insulted me. That behaviour was disgusting and i think it needs to be called out. 18:01:42 I hope this incident will make the community more vigilant and sensitive about the subject and that this meeting will help to set some guidelines to avoid the rise of a similar problem. 18:01:55 i don't think #monero-pools ever had a racist topic. there's a site somewhere that has a full history of all the topics that have been set 18:02:03 Sounds legit. 18:02:13 ErCiccione: you're mixing things up. the "racist" description was on a reddit chat, not #monero-pools 18:02:30 sorry guys, my mistake. I meant /r/moneromining 18:03:01 Now, let's start with point one: 18:03:18 1) Moving away from /r/moneromining 18:03:35 ErCiccione, can you give an example of the racist slang? Or do we just have to take your word for it? 18:04:07 Mochi101: someone was banned from this channel temporarily for offensive language 18:04:15 Mochi101: "welcome to the SJW-riddled world in which anything you say can be considered natzi!!!" "we are demons!!!! we killed (((them)))." 18:04:16 The point of this meeting isn't to document it 18:04:33 those are just a couple, logs are public on monero-pools 18:04:52 So the three parentheses is the racist thing? 18:05:06 Mochi101: yes especially in this case 18:05:14 Let's not play dumb 18:05:38 Actually I've never heard about the 3 ( until like a week ago. 18:05:43 fwiw all of these culturla references went over my head 18:06:06 So if the "SJWs" want to keep moving the goal posts... 18:06:36 In any case we don't need to have that discussion here about what Mochi101 knows about racist statements 18:07:10 we should however discuss that this: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/433 is not accurate 18:07:11 Topic is moving away from the subreddit 18:07:11 so, about /r/moneromining 18:07:23 because this is basically the argument for the proposed move 18:07:39 Lead mod is impossible to work with 18:07:43 Have we actually, explicitly stated that "racism = bad" here? I'm taking it as a given, but maybe not everyone is on the same page 18:07:54 And is using the subreddit to advance their "anti-snowflake" agenda 18:07:59 sgp_: I'd say challenging, but not impossible 18:08:22 M5M400: what action has taken out of compromise at all? 18:08:29 was usrn ever a part of the community? i've only been here for a couple of years but i have never seen him around 18:08:35 sgp_: he has taken it down. 18:08:47 upon request from me 18:08:58 I can confirm racist and homophobic remarks on monero related irc channels. Theres also some nazistic remarks and cryptic chat with it. That's all I can say. 18:09:02 asymptotically: he was to a small extent early on 18:09:27 M5M400: I think that's a really low bar 18:09:32 Same. 18:09:47 He has demonstrated a distinct lack of leadership qualities 18:09:53 sgp_: i have to agree that it bothers me that he is not willing to give up the control over the channel 18:10:06 For example I was removed for removing a BCH post in r/cryptocurrency 18:10:12 irc channel? or subreddit? is he in charge of both? 18:10:16 Usrn being head mod of any part of our ecosystem is a liability. 18:10:19 so for me it's basically a decision between dealing with it vs. rebuilding a community 18:10:20 Just the sub for now hyc 18:10:23 hyc: just subreddit 18:10:45 I agree, from my interactions with him, I view him as a liability 18:10:53 I think this meeting was brought about since it is a huge liability now 18:10:55 Going to have a hard time rebuilding. 18:11:04 ^this 18:11:05 Not just could be 18:11:09 And it will not get easier to fix in the future 18:11:11 It IS a liability 18:11:21 With already-seen negative impacts 18:11:33 This needs to be dealt with before the ecosystem gets any bigger 18:11:46 Having it happen after the CPU mining fork is unfortunate 18:11:47 So what needmonero90 and sgp_ are saying is that you want centralized control over some parts of the community? 18:11:47 i'm kinda having a deja-vu needmonero90 ;) 18:11:51 That would have made it way easier 18:12:25 M5M400: I've already argued this point once, and you overrode it. It's coming up again. I very much hope it doesn't happen a third time. 18:12:31 Mochi101: haha no way 18:12:33 and you're willing to underhandedly make a request to reddit admins to take that control? 18:12:43 Wut 18:12:53 Mochi101: Reddit admins aren't responsive but I would if they were responsive 18:12:59 Where on earth are you getting that from 18:13:16 some degree of control is useful, yes. if we as a community have a policy of "no racism" and a moderator - a person in a position of leadership - isn't abiding by that policy 18:13:26 needmonero90: let's factor in that this chat topic was set before the first incident with deopping sgp_ 18:13:28 then we need a means to take action 18:13:32 Right, it's about accountability not "control" 18:13:34 just nobody noticed 18:13:50 He reverted it multiple times afterwards 18:13:56 he reverted it ONCE 18:14:05 Still, that occurred after. 18:14:09 (yes, once is too often still 18:14:09 That alone is total bullshit 18:14:11 no one noticed because it requires the new design 18:14:25 and because noone uses that chat 18:14:46 I'm inclined to disable it 18:15:08 Mochi101, he can retain control, but then we just won't link to it from official core team sources. 18:15:21 anyway, being moderator of a forum or channel that is part of a larger community doesn't mean you can use it to advance your own personal agenda. 18:15:24 Exactly, which bring us back to theain topic 18:15:26 Was there a specific complaint about the "bergbau macht frei" thing from someone? 18:15:28 that's not why the community entrusts you with that role. 18:15:37 This isn't being silenced and not centralization. People can do racist things in their racist places, but we don't have to send people there. That simple. :) 18:15:45 How should we move over to something else 18:16:00 needmonero90 is squatting on a similarly named subreddit 18:16:17 Inb4 I have dreams of centralized control and won't give it up 18:16:27 Haha nice 18:16:31 It's possible 18:16:33 So going back to the topic, how are we going to act? New subreddit? 18:16:37 needmonero90: gib control 18:16:39 :D 18:16:51 If this plays out, you're top of my list m5m 18:16:53 yeah, new subreddit sounds good. drop all references to the old one 18:16:56 Easy transition 18:16:56 <3 18:16:59 yeah, new subreddit 18:17:01 i think that's the best option. Revuilding the community will be a pain, but it's necessary 18:17:03 I think it's obvious we need a new subreddit if the lead mod isn't removed from the current sub 18:17:25 I'm still against that, but if y'all think that's what needs to be done, be my guest 18:17:33 sounds like a good way to go about it 18:17:39 we are forking away. community will make up their own minds which chain to follow. 18:18:15 I put .1 xmr on r/moneromining 18:18:22 M5M400: what are your reasons for being against that? 18:18:44 kinghat: haven't changed. I think it throws us back a couple of years in community building 18:19:00 official monero mining subreddit: 10 members. GOTTA JOIN! 18:19:21 not sure how you guys go about chosing the right sub, but I usually go with the crowded ones 18:19:28 well, get usrn to step down. 18:19:30 You'll never build that up... People are not following likes to Reddit off of getmonero.org and the likes to find that subreddit 18:19:47 i don't think that the sub is particularly active anyway 18:19:47 gingeropolous: I can certainly pitch it to him but I doubt I'll succeed 18:19:52 Mochi101: risk we need to take 18:19:58 It's not a huge sub 18:20:08 M5M400: fair reasoning. 18:20:18 and we can do a few announcements in various social media channels 18:20:43 fireice is going to have his fun with this either way 18:20:47 what if usrn handed the sub over but was still in a mod role? 18:20:58 kinghat: he won't 18:20:58 Yes but we're making the right choice 18:21:18 New sub 18:21:28 needmonero90: what's the new sub again? 18:21:31 So, the vast majority of the people here agree with moving away. Where? /r/monerominer? currently registered by neemonero90 18:21:33 I don't want him in a mod role either. :P 18:21:43 rehrar: +1 18:21:44 honestly, I'm not particularly fond of the current sub. it's utterly boring and I only mod it because someone has to 18:22:01 lol. it's probably good that it's boring. 18:22:01 So tell me how "consensus" happened here. 18:22:08 yeah i don't frequent the mining sub either 18:22:09 I mean, for the community. 18:22:10 Mochi101: off-topic 18:22:16 fuck you it's off topic 18:22:16 is it not an option to leave things the way they are, and if he does clearly out of line this again we move to the new sub? 18:22:34 Mochi101: no insults or you can just leave the meeting 18:22:44 Mocho101 the same way it happens for many things with Monero. People of reputation showed up to a publicly announced meeting and talked about things. 18:22:48 Oh he got kicked. 18:22:49 thanks sgp_ 18:23:08 because you're acting like a dictator 18:23:18 11:22 AM <• rehrar> Mocho101 the same way it happens for many things with Monero. People of reputation showed up to a publicly announced meeting and talked about things. 18:23:19 How did we arrice at consenzsus? 18:23:31 I'mnot hearing a lot of dissent. 18:23:34 And then it's shown to core and they are the final deciders of what is shown on their infrastructure. 18:23:47 Mochi101: please behave decently or leave the meeting 18:23:51 Mochi101: it's not a consensus of literally everyone. It's consensus of a group of people here to take an action 18:23:51 If people want to be involved in the process they can come to these meetings. :) 18:23:57 hyc: I am not in favor, but seem to be the minority 18:23:57 In this case, it's a consensus that encompasses the people who have control over various sidebars and wikis in our ecosystem. 18:23:59 But next topic 18:24:19 Hold up. 18:24:21 M5M400: you agree though that usrn is difficult to work with? 18:24:27 I do 18:24:33 ok 18:24:38 It needs to be noted that nobody is stopping the old sub from still existing and we're not taking it down in any way. We aren't silencing anybody. 18:24:50 We are just choosing not to associate with it. 18:24:55 let the record show! 18:24:58 The claims of dictatorship are honestly moronic. 18:25:09 We aren't forcing anyone to do anything. 18:25:09 No they're not. 18:25:13 Right, it's more accurately worried people removing support and affiliation 18:25:13 needmonero90: ErCiccione: did reporting the sub bear any fruits? 18:25:27 Nope 18:25:30 im more in favor of giving the sub another chance, only because its so easy, from a tech standpoint, to move to a different sub we are squatting on. 18:25:41 In the same way that forking off of Monero because you don't agree, and Monero core not linking to your fork is not dictatorship. 18:25:51 kinghat: I think many chanves have already come and gone 18:26:02 I strongly disagree we should keep pointing people to that subreddit because "it's easier" 18:26:30 we have to make the right decision, not the easier 18:26:53 +1 18:27:03 seems minds have been made up then 18:27:04 +infinity 18:27:11 +1 (for the loose consensus) 18:27:15 By the way, usrn could have chosen to attend this meeting too, yes? 18:27:22 i said its easy to switch. i mean if nothing controversial comes out of that sub again the premature move to another one seems kind of meh. 18:27:26 hyc it's in the meta repo 18:27:28 no, only people with super cool internet connections can get on IRC 18:27:35 Though we really need a better system. 18:27:44 Because using GitHub for meeting is the most sucky thing. 18:27:47 But that's another topic. 18:27:50 hyc: maybe if you made a thread about it on r/moneropools. don't think he's very active outside of this 18:28:02 Seems like a great head mod 18:28:12 I wouldn't be here if the link wasn't shared 5 minutes before the meeting on #monero-pools 18:28:16 We will link the new sub in the old one :) 18:28:30 brilliant. 18:28:39 With takedown in 3 .. 2 .. 1 18:28:40 sgp_: haha. I bet 0.1 xmr he won't delete it 18:28:48 any takers? 18:28:49 will see how much of a laissez-faire mod he is then 18:28:53 Haha 18:28:58 I'll pin it, even 18:28:58 He has a temper, I wouldn't be surprised if he removed. 18:29:02 ok so, the subreddit we migrate to will be /r/monerominer? 18:29:03 And also power fantasies 18:29:19 "master of the universe" flair... 18:29:21 and all links to /r/moneromining will be removed from core-managed platforms 18:29:26 yeah /r/monerominer sounds fine, it's already ready to go 18:29:36 Yup and yup 18:29:39 and hopefully /r/monero as well 18:29:45 K. Next. 18:29:46 nah 18:29:50 Ginger and I are here 18:29:54 And I think in agreement 18:30:00 Which is two of the three active mods 18:30:09 I think /r/Monero is covered 18:30:13 Good. Next point: 18:30:19 2) Quality of the Monero chats 18:30:29 ruh roh 18:30:39 After the issue mentioned above, the problem of some "wild" Monero chatrooms rised again, especially #monero-pools #monero-market and in minor part #monero. It's important that all 'Monero-' channels reflect the welcoming spirit our community is renown for. I know binaryfate in particular wanted to speak about the subject, so if he is here, please go ahead :) 18:31:10 haven't read him here yet, so, let's give him a couple of minutes 18:31:58 I've seen some pretty questionable stuff in -markets. since we've treated is a trollbox I usually ignore it 18:32:16 never been on there so can't say 18:32:19 but sometimes the hookers'n'lambo talk gets way too sexist 18:32:34 If a channel is officially designated designated for support, I think off topic chatter should be light 18:32:59 I can't really think of any problems in #monero itself 18:33:05 Monero is fine 18:33:14 Would say so also 18:33:21 Once again, please not that core team has control over all 'monero-' channels on IRC. 18:33:25 don't hang out there either. it's boring :) 18:33:28 Pools has cleaned up too 18:33:38 If anyone wants to make #miningonmonero, they can do so, and it will be outside of core control. 18:33:39 Mostly afaik 18:34:07 gl finding people to police all of this. do we just start shutting it all down? 18:34:10 probably should make a #monero-miner to correspond to the subreddit 18:34:10 rehrar: all chats eith monero- can be taken over anytime by the core team 18:34:13 I think for IRC the main points are making sure they're on topic and non-offensive. And making sure mods enforce this. I'm not volunteering to do this fwiw 18:34:20 Freenode will give Monero core preference if the channel name has the word monero it it though rehrar 18:34:22 that was freenode's decision after they cleaned up -pools AFAIK 18:34:56 sgp_: if you wanna target civilized off-topic too, I'm out as mod there 18:35:10 i agree with sgp_. I know that some mods in -pools got powers, but they are not really active, so maybe we need more active mods there? 18:35:20 Precisely why I relinquished my powers. 18:35:24 Mochi101: XMR then? 18:35:53 Maybe 18:36:26 Fwiw I think this enforcement of high quality talk is a terrible idea. 18:36:31 i would have really liked an input from the core team on this point, but we should take a stance about what is acceptable and what is not in the monero- channels 18:36:45 ErCiccione: freenode policy already covers a lot of things 18:36:49 In times like meetings, yes, let there be high quality talk. 18:36:57 In other times, let the community be a community. 18:37:08 asymptotically: that policy is not enforced, that's the problem 18:37:09 rehrar: agree. i also think its not possible. 18:37:12 yeah, you have to have room for banter and actual socializing 18:37:19 We laugh, have fun, mourn, make jokes, etc. 18:37:31 ErCiccione: it is in pools. there's even freenode staff there to make sure :) 18:37:35 ErCiccione, there are 2 freenode cops in the channel pretty much all the time. 18:37:52 Otherwise we become a stick-in-the-mud group that nobody wants to be around (including me :P) 18:38:02 What are nicknames of freenode cops? 18:38:03 cohcho: 2020-01-26 - 12:28:36 tell cohcho retarget-ratio change works like a charm, I reduced the start difficulty to 5000 without any issue 18:38:04 I even kick when I see some stupidly grouped parantheses 18:38:05 Roughly on topic is fine 18:38:07 Is pools such a magnet for bad things? 18:38:29 There shouldn;t be freenode mods there to enforce the rules guys, that's the issue 18:38:32 yeah, which is weird. there are freenode opers on those channels yet racist and sexist talk are still rampant. 18:38:34 Fuchs is one 18:38:54 i mean, #monero-pools could continue doings its thing, and a new miner help chatroom can be started. THe only reason #monero-pools gets the noobs is because its the default IRC room for the pool software 18:39:13 that would require getting... 2 pool admins to change the defaults 18:39:14 The freenode team intervenes only in extreme situatons, we should really avoid to get there. That's the point 18:39:24 ErCiccione: haven't seen them having to enforce anything since \x 18:39:29 because... decentralized (lol) 18:39:52 M5M400: exactly, that's what i mean with extreme situations, we shouldn't get there 18:40:09 still we should adhere to certain ideals. Being a permissionless money kinda says we value being non-discriminatory. 18:40:19 but we can get there anytime in an open chatroom... not sure how to avoid? 18:40:20 That's why if pools can be a bit slight, is fine for me, but it's important to have mods which enforces freenode rules strictly 18:40:27 so allowing racist/sexist/whatever would be hypocritical 18:40:43 #which means no sexists, racists discussions or other stuff of that kind 18:40:46 Your certain ideals may be different than others. 18:41:05 well there are other places on the internet 18:41:06 nobody is talking about ideals here Mochi101 18:41:09 Mochi101: if you don't believe in permissionless money then Monero isn't for you 18:41:25 "hyc> still we should adhere to certain ideals." 18:41:38 if you want to have sexist/racist discussions, monero- channels are not the place for you 18:41:46 'scuse me? 18:41:46 Once again, we are discussing all core te stewarded areas. 18:41:50 Team* 18:41:58 ideals =/= ideology 18:42:00 everyone wants these chats policed but nobody here wants to do it 🤷‍♂️ 18:42:12 kinghat: this is also true. :D 18:42:13 just get a bot to do it 18:42:18 I got removed from my position as mod when I dared enforce. 18:42:21 so. 18:42:22 kinghat: that's actually part of the problem 18:42:27 Thats not exactly true kinghat. 18:42:37 Oof needmoney90 coming in with the facts 18:42:43 kinghat: I'm willing to do it, but to my own moral compass. and I have a very high tolerance for bullshit and sarcasm/cynism... 18:42:43 for the record i dont want to do it. 18:42:47 lubs needmonero90. 18:43:20 M5M400: youre obv not good enough then. 18:43:27 m5m big bad 18:43:27 😁 18:43:36 M5M400: I'd trust you. I think that's what's needed for a looser group. High tolerance, but then moderating vitrolic and destructive behavior. 18:43:54 No that's the status quo 18:44:02 it is. 18:44:09 Indeed. 18:44:13 We're not loosers rehrar, be nice. 18:44:14 ;) 18:44:25 :P loose not lose 18:44:31 m5m is already active on the mining subreddits, and receptive to community consensus (even if it goes against his personal opinion) from what I can tell 18:44:47 Which is ideally what we want 18:45:06 I completely understand that M5M400 would let things through that others might not. 18:45:13 he also doesnt seem to have dreams of power, seeing as he keeps wanting to keep the old sub with the dictatorial leader 18:45:14 we need somebody to at least enforce freenode rules. M5M400 if you are fine with letting racism and sexism pass because in your opinion is sarcasm, you are indeed not fitting for the role 18:45:26 sigh 18:45:30 power is pain 18:45:42 Perhaps a slightly tighter control is necessary, but moving to a choking grip wouldn't be beneficial imo. 18:45:42 shh, not so loud or we'll never get new mods 18:45:56 so in light of nobody stepping up to police the coms, do we shut them down? what are the options here? 18:45:59 ErCiccione: if I spot intended racism, I step in. 18:46:25 We need the threshold to be more restrictive 18:46:30 rehrar: i think enforcing freenode's rules is very far from being a "chocking grip" 18:46:32 hard to distinguish where the jokes end and the real racism starts though 18:46:32 Other mods can help with that 18:46:55 What other mods? 18:47:03 just make race/religion/politics out of bounds, potentially. 18:47:04 M5M400: THat "intended" is not really reasurign. So i can be racist if right after i say i'm joking? (which is often the case) 18:47:04 Erciccione not everyone here is in agreement with what constitutes racism or sexism. 18:47:04 binaryFate has to be there to mod 18:47:22 hedgemoon has to be there to mod 18:47:31 I, for one, don't play the identity politics game, but I still try not to be discriminatory in my speech and actions. 18:47:34 hegemoOn sorry 18:48:00 rehrar: me too. try not to be offensive, and try not to be offended :D 18:48:06 Indeed. 18:48:10 so all -pools has is asymptotically and M5M400 18:48:22 because you took the easy way out Mochi101 :P 18:48:31 And the hand of justice that is falling here seems to stem from a left leaning view of racism and sexism. 18:48:41 Which, if that is what is wanted, that can be discussdd 18:48:44 But it must be defined. 18:48:50 No it doesn't 18:48:57 We can't assume that everyone has the same idea as what constitutes these subjects. 18:49:01 +1 18:49:09 Not everyone has the same view 18:49:09 ++ rehrar 18:49:33 .define racism 18:49:34 racism — noun: 1. Belief in distinct human races, and that they have different inherent attributes or abilities, and generally that some are superior and others inferior, 2. The policy, practice or (e.g. government or political) program of promoting this belief and promoting the dominance of on[...] 18:49:34 If we want a uniform policy, that's fine. But making sure "nobody feels offended ever" is a losing game. 18:49:40 But we need higher standards to make the room welcoming 18:49:42 .define sexism 18:49:43 sexism — noun: 1. The belief that people of one sex or gender are inherently superior to people of the other sex or gender, 2. Different treatment or discrimination based on a difference of sex or gender 18:50:10 I've neer seen sexism in -pools if that's how it's defined 18:50:17