11:35:52 <hwgttm64> Is there any ongoing discussions about how we can spread monero and increase usage?
11:36:01 <hwgttm64> Are there*
12:01:41 <midipoet> there is #monero-outreach which support those types of initiatives
12:01:52 <midipoet> in a loose sense, anyway
12:06:58 <hwgttm64> Thanks
15:47:29 <sgp_> Does anyone think it's worth getting connections on nakamoto.com, the new website that made waves this weekend? The viewpoints of the Monero community aren't really represented
15:47:38 <rottensox> no.
15:48:27 <sgp_> I'm worried that more is getting gatekept out as normal and I'm open for ways to help push back
15:49:23 <sgp_> to some extent we need to play their games
15:50:44 <rottensox> friendly reminder to all we're discussing the possible themes for Konferenco 2020 on Taiga - https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-konferenco/epic/59
15:51:01 <rottensox> i added a comment below. Why privacy matters: what is fungibility and how should you claim it back.
15:53:15 <sgp_> the theme should be reflective of talks to a large extent I think
15:53:21 <sgp_> that's what we tried to do for defcon this year
15:53:29 <rottensox> aye lad.
15:53:50 <rottensox> hence why deciding on a theme first should make CFP easier, possibly?
15:53:59 <rottensox> we're narrowing down the spectrum, i believe.
15:58:12 <midipoet> the theme would serve to focus the CfP/CfW in some manner, yes.
15:58:23 <midipoet> also provide context for keynotes
16:55:04 <gingeropolous> "All Nakamoto contributors share one non-negotiable value: they must be pro-Bitcoin (BTC) for the long-term"
17:04:22 <gingeropolous> ok i bought vansaberhagen.com
17:04:33 <rottensox> lol.
17:06:12 <gingeropolous> propose a similar posh website where contributors must share one non-negotiable value: must be pro trustless digital money for the long term
17:07:12 <sarang> Why place such vague restrictions on contributors?
17:07:20 <sarang> Why not simply judge contributions based on their own merit?
17:07:49 <sarang> It looks like their "pro-BTC" requirement is some kind of proxy for a list of value the creator thinks Bitcoin represents
17:08:18 <gingeropolous> i dunno. i know if i ask myself deep down if I'm pro BTC long-term, the answer is not yet
17:08:22 <gingeropolous> yes
17:09:30 <sarang> I wonder if any would-be contributors will be rejected due to that requirement
17:12:33 <SerHack> I admit I was going to submit some pro-privacy articles to nakamoto dot com
17:13:08 <sarang> Why not? Seems to have good exposure so far
17:13:16 <sarang> Worst that can happen is rejection
17:13:32 <sarang> and I wonder how many contributions they'll get (more would imply higher rejection rate, I assume)
17:14:42 <SerHack> I'm waiting for their response :)
17:15:14 <sarang> Did you submit an article, or only reach out to ask to contribute?
17:16:06 <SerHack> sarang: I'm discussing some ideas with their team
17:16:14 <sarang> neat
18:06:35 <sgp_> SerHack: I'm happy to advise and revise/edit if needed
18:07:48 <SerHack> I'll let you know about that sgp_
18:08:30 <sgp_> cool
18:08:53 <sgp_> I find it unlikely they will publish anything under a pseudonym though, just a guess
19:05:30 <geonic> when do we vote for where the Konferenco will be held?
19:05:50 <rottensox> that's already decided geonic.
19:05:52 <rottensox> Berlin.
19:06:12 <geonic> oh great
19:06:12 <rottensox> oh, specific venue? still to be decided. meeting this Wednesday Jan 8th.
19:06:22 <rottensox> Konferenco[EU] Meeting 8th January 2020 @ 19:00 UTC: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/426
19:07:08 <geonic> thanks!
20:52:18 <SerHack> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/ekzltd/ideas_for_getmonerodev/
20:52:18 <monerobux> [REDDIT] Ideas for GetMonero.dev (self.Monero) | 6 points (100.0%) | 0 comments | Posted by serhack | Created at 2020-01-06 - 20:16:38
21:48:20 <ErCiccione[m]> Is this true? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENoN0FSXkAAEmRu?format=jpg&name=small i cannot find the chatroom
21:49:42 <ErCiccione[m]> if it is, i hope the idiot responsible for it will change that name immediately or i will remove every mention of that subreddit from everywhere i have access to
21:56:43 <ErCiccione[m]> are you guys ok with shit like that being online? For who doesn't get it. It's a wordplay on "Arbeit macht frei ", which is the sign nazis put on the entrance of Auschwitz
22:00:39 <sarang> That is disgusting; is it possible to report it?
22:01:07 <ErCiccione[m]> i just said it in pools and people are just playing stupid. This is not ok and i'm sick of the bullshit that -pools pull out from time to time. Even worse that people are just reacting with bullshit like "grab the popcorn" "<\​x> yeah i googled it all i see is gates"
22:01:11 <ErCiccione[m]> sarang: i hope so
22:01:43 <ErCiccione[m]> i couldn't find an acces to that chat. I use the old version of reddit, no idea if that makes a difference
22:01:43 <sarang> Ugh
22:03:03 <ErCiccione[m]> I don't want monero to be linked to such a community. Every single answer about my complain up to this moment are ironic. I have enough.
22:03:26 <rottensox> ErCiccione[m]: there's a thing called setting someone on ignore, for instance.
22:03:34 <rottensox> or shutting your laptop's lid and ignoring what gets you triggered...
22:03:53 <rottensox> as you are fed up with -pools behaviour we are fed up with this political correctness from some characters.
22:04:15 <ErCiccione[m]> That's absolutely moronic rottensox, but good to know your point of view.
22:04:19 <rottensox> https://imgur.com/Uvr2eRw.png
22:04:26 <rottensox> :)
22:05:41 <ErCiccione[m]> I encourage the community to report that chatroom if they know how to reach it
22:09:34 <selsta> ErCiccione[m]: It’s real. I’ve posted in the chat and asked to get it changed.
22:10:43 <selsta> Ping jtgrassie M5M400 ^^^^
22:21:25 <ErCiccione[m]> sgp_: i'm opening a PR for taking down every link to monero-pools from getmonero. Please add to the agenda of the next meeting the discussion "removal of mentions of /r/moneromining from the monero infrastructure maintained by the core team"
22:21:42 <ErCiccione[m]> sorry i meant #monero-pools
22:22:17 <ErCiccione[m]> if /r/moneromining admin doesn't take down that description, i propose to take down every link to /r/moneromining as well
22:22:23 <ErCiccione[m]> enough of their bullshit
22:31:53 <Snipa> @rehrar you around by chance?
22:32:24 <sgp_> I agree that shouldn't be tolerated
22:32:43 <binaryFate> agree
22:32:53 <sgp_> Note I'm not a mod there since I was removed by the head mod for removing abrasive BCH comments in r/cc
22:33:34 <sgp_> M5M400: can you check the mod logs so we can hold someone accountable? Not sure if that shows up in the mod logs
22:33:37 <Snipa> Mizel/M5M are probally asleep (EUTZ's), Rehrar can probally deal with it when he domes active.
22:33:51 <Snipa> Unless a higher mod put it in place, then they can't do anything.
22:34:21 <Snipa> Should be able to pull the mod logs at the least and determine who put it there.
22:34:32 <sgp_> Hopefully :/
22:34:37 <selsta> I think rehrar can only edit CSS.
22:34:55 <Snipa> Should still have modlog access by just having moderator at all.
22:35:11 <sgp_> needmonero90: are you sitting on another subreddit just in case? iirc you grabbed one after the last drama
22:35:39 <sgp_> Snipa: I've never checked if anything related to the chat feature shows up in the modlog, that's all
22:35:50 <sgp_> I don't really use it
22:35:51 <ErCiccione[m]> now people in -pools are getting scared and are trying to take distance from /r/moneromining, but when i brought it up there at the beginning i only got jokes and bullshit excuses in response. I don't want people to join that chatroom expecting to find help about mining and have to deal with that shitty community instead
22:36:36 <needmonero90> I own /r/monerominer after I smelled smoke.
22:36:43 <sech1> -pools is spoiled by literally 2-3 people, the rest there are helpful
22:36:58 <needmonero90> If the moderation doesnt remove or deal with the offenders, they are complicit
22:37:04 <hyc> exactly
22:37:09 <needmonero90> *especially* if its against freenode TOS
22:37:13 <Snipa> They may or may not be able to touch it.
22:37:14 <ErCiccione[m]> +1
22:37:26 <Snipa> This is a reddit issue, and reddit permissions are based on the height of the moderator.
22:38:02 <ErCiccione[m]> let's remember that -pools moderation got already wiped out once by freenode admins for racists comments
22:38:14 <needmonero90> Look. After the head mod of moneromining decided to not take the community or other mods' opinions into account before taking action, I decided that wasnt the environment I personally wanted to moderate in
22:38:16 <needmonero90> so I quit
22:38:34 <needmonero90> I dont want to run a mining sub, I will happily give it to anyone who wants to run it
22:38:53 <needmonero90> I will also happily sit in the background and mod if need be, but I dont want the head position
22:39:17 <ErCiccione[m]> Then why are we directing people there for support about mining if we even don't to deal with it?
22:39:33 <needmonero90> There is no where else for me to direct people.
22:39:56 <needmonero90> I actually got mad at the -pools people earlier for this exact issue, because there isnt an alternative
22:40:21 <needmonero90> If someone asks me a mining question, I either direct them to the appropriate resources, help them out, or throw my hands up
22:40:59 <ErCiccione[m]> i think the priority right now is to not link to -pools, we can discuss an alternative during next meeting
22:41:19 <needmonero90> And I dont have the time or knowledge to help them out, so its either direct them to pools/moneromining, or throw my hands up
22:41:29 <needmonero90> What would you suggest I do?
22:41:44 <Snipa> -pools is also the default target for the live help on almost all the pools at this point, good, bad, or otherwise.  Content moderation is left to the ops.  If it's a problem, talk with the ops and fix it, if the ops aren't achieving the needed goals (Which I find hard, as binaryfate and M5M are both ops there), then that's a different issue.
22:42:01 <ErCiccione[m]> needmonero90: i totally understand what you mean, because it's the same for me
22:42:43 <binaryFate> I forcibly took OP (core team can get any #monero* channel on IRC) when there was a blow up and even freenode staff had to intervene
22:43:16 <binaryFate> I have no desire to moderate that regularly. I am available if that goes bonkers so that it does not escalate to freenode (again).
22:43:22 <sgp_> rottensox: you're getting a tempban for the offensive tweet/imgur link
22:43:28 <needmonero90> Fuchs is in the room btw binary
22:43:33 <needmonero90> Freenode staff
22:43:43 <needmonero90> #facism
22:44:44 <Snipa> If that's the case, then it's time to find proper moderators for that chat if the remaining ones aren't achieving the goals.  *shrug*
22:45:25 <needmonero90> Good luck :/
22:45:26 <sgp_> I think proper mods is the right answer since we have trusted people in control of the room, but we also need volunteers (I can't do it)
22:45:58 <needmonero90> I would need at least double my salary
22:46:08 <sgp_> Done
22:46:15 <sgp_> 2x0=0
22:46:16 <needmonero90> Wait shit I don't get paid
22:46:38 <Snipa> Traditionally, pool ops have been the moderators, as they've got a vested interest in keeping the room sane-ish, but there's no hard and fast rules.
22:48:04 <Snipa> But it's whatever works for the community.  I'm a bit tied to -pools as it's sort of my home for Monero overall, so if it comes down to it, I'm willing to deal with moderating it, but I'd also be interested if there's a standard to moderation that should be held to by the project at-large at that point.
22:49:33 <needmonero90> I am against standardizing the rules across our ecosystem, personally
22:49:47 <needmonero90> which seems out of character probably
22:50:39 <needmonero90> part of our resilience and ability to defend moderation actions as a community has rested on it being a bunch of distinct bubbles
22:51:01 * needmonero90 thinks about it
22:51:05 <Snipa> Tbh, if core team can pull access to channels at any time, it's really whatever they state as the standard.  The request for channel removal from core resources over a couple of people with an undefined spec is mildly annoying as there's clearly a boundary being crossed, but it's unknown what that boundary is specified as, making moderation extremely difficult.
22:54:47 <ErCiccione[m]> The request for channel removal from core resources over a couple of people with an undefined spec is mildly annoying as there's clearly a boundary being crossed ->  snipa could you clarify?
22:56:18 <ErCiccione[m]> I think it's completely legit to suggest to remove a channel if i think it doesn't make monero interests, but actually, just give it a bad image
22:56:59 <Snipa> Removal of -pools from core resources (site/etc) is a statement that core doesn't agree with the actions of the channel.  It is as so far undefined what the issue is, past a feeling of people "playing stupid", mind you, I scanned your image, and didn't see anything wrong, but that's likely due to a lack of knowledge of the specific history around it.  \x's reaction is certainly not unusual for him, but is difficult to even moderate as it's
22:57:00 <Snipa> coming in over a bridge.
22:58:59 <binaryFate> <Snipa> Tbh, if core team can pull access to channels at any time, it's really whatever they state as the standard.  <--- we can take OP if needed, but this is not the same as moderation or deciding how moderators should police each channel. It is just to ensure the bare minimum that does not get the channel banned from freenode.
22:59:31 <binaryFate> At least that is how I see it. We never discussed that in terms of rules, and I don't think anyone should rely on this last resort possibility as part of the moderation tools
22:59:40 <selsta> I wrote with u/usrn, he added it and he does not want to remove it.
22:59:51 <selsta> Probably best to start a new subreddit.
23:00:15 <selsta> r/monerominer or maybe someone has an idea for a better name.
23:00:44 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> In case you missed it on the social media.... Latest Monero Outreach article posted: https://www.monerooutreach.org/monero-china-west.php
23:00:45 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/ekv74j/monero_in_china_and_the_west/
23:00:46 <monerobux> [REDDIT] Monero in China and the West (https://www.monerooutreach.org/monero-china-west.php) to r/Monero | 49 points (95.0%) | 3 comments | Posted by almutasim | Created at 2020-01-06 - 14:59:34
23:00:46 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Twitter: https://twitter.com/xmroutreach/status/1214232822782652417
23:00:49 <monerobux> [ Monero Outreach on Twitter: "A look at @Monero in China and the West. The differences and opportunities that exist between these respective groups. #monero #xmr $xmr #CryptoNews https://t.co/ikJD0YuXK ] - twitter.com
23:01:16 <Snipa> binaryFate - Imho, that makes core the final moderators for determining, at the least, general overarch.  If that's "Don't get banned from freenode", that's fine, but that should also reflect in the decisions to remove -pools from core infra.
23:01:38 <ErCiccione[m]> Snipa:  Fair. I can understand that people outside europe might be not familiar with that sentence and i probably got caried out by the fact that i consider -pools rubbish.
23:03:02 <binaryFate> I don't think any #monero* should be removed from "infra" as what happens there can paint the whole project in a bad light, and nobody from the outside would make the difference.
23:03:09 <ErCiccione[m]> i still don;t like to redirect people to that place and i think it's enough to read the comment after my statement there to understand why. I hope after these events there will be a drastic improvement in the moderation of that channel
23:03:56 <binaryFate> -pools is often low level in my view and not my cup of tea, but as long as it does not blow up to freenode I don't care.
23:04:15 <binaryFate> Seems the core issue here is the subreddit thing.
23:04:18 <Snipa> I don't disagree with the overall response, and certainly -pools moderation has been on my mind personally recently, as I'm fully aware of how much of a cesspool it is.  But if the overarching rule is "Don't get banned from freenode", then that's the upper limit of what's acceptable.  Talk with the ops, M5M is quite reasonable, and I doubt setting rules in place would be an issue.
23:04:29 <kinghat> are the "events" that they claimed an official monero chat on reddit?
23:04:35 <selsta> no
23:06:08 <ErCiccione[m]> anyway, let's focus on /r/moneromining. SInce the admin refuses to take down the statement i think taking down the mention from getmonero is the minimum we can do
23:06:15 <binaryFate> I pinged M5M400 and hegemoOn to ask if they moderate the room. In my view they should get more support. Personally I don't have time to look at that room, unless someone tells me it really needs immediate action.
23:06:54 <binaryFate> There should be no link/mention of that subreddit from any other Monero resources, that is clear to me
23:10:25 <ErCiccione[m]> i'm PRing the removal of /r/moneromining on getmonero
23:14:43 <Snipa> Sounds like there's a new one ready, my suggestion would be to work out mods for -pools, and see if they're willing to run the subreddit at the same time, so it's a single source and moderation is consistent.
23:16:20 <kinghat> i feel like when more of those mods are online there could be cooperation for changing that wording 🤷‍♂️
23:18:50 <selsta> I think mods can’t change it if an admin set it.
23:20:30 <kinghat> im just saying once more of the mods are online they have a better chance of collectively working it out. if not, then proceed.
23:26:34 <ErCiccione[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/monero-site/merge_requests/1195
23:31:27 <binaryFate> we have some rights on #monero* as per a group (https://freenode.net/groupreg). We're responsible for it. I don't think we can just say "folks are dumb there, not our problem anymore".
23:31:48 <ErCiccione[m]> i agree
23:31:50 <binaryFate> So one way or another -pools has to behave at least as per freenode guidelines
23:36:20 <ErCiccione[m]> I'm going to bed now, my girlfriend hates me enough. have good evening or whatever, folks.
23:38:45 <Snipa> Sleep well.