14:13:14 sgp_: I'm not certain that I can attend today's meeting as usual. The chances are 50-50, so you may need to skip my half of the scouting report for Konferenco. 14:13:33 I'm going to try to finish what I'm doing as soon as possible to raise the chances of attending. 15:27:49 I will not be here for the meeting. A comment on when to hold konferenco. 15:28:02 Starting May 9 there is blockchain week in NYC which includes fluffy and crew's Magical Crypto Conference (MCC) as well as Consensus. 15:28:10 A large % of the crypto community will be there at that time so..... 15:28:12 I think this is before konferenco will likely be but...... 16:12:50 is there a coffee chat today? revuo says so 16:13:11 i was also wondering 16:15:11 although it seems a bit odd that there would be a coffee chat an hour before an irc meeting starts 16:17:59 no coffee chat today 16:18:10 meeting in ~40 minutes 16:20:16 very cool 16:42:58 aiming to be there 16:45:10 Morning all. 16:59:54 you know what time it is 17:00:02 morning 17:00:02 is your favorite time every (other) week 17:00:04 test 17:00:04 test failed 17:00:05 meeting time! 17:00:15 0. Introduction 17:00:20 We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting! 17:00:27 Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/421 17:00:34 Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support. 17:00:39 1. Greetings 17:00:47 hello! 17:01:02 Hi. 17:01:04 Hallo all. 17:01:38 Helo. 17:01:42 hi 17:01:42 hello there 17:01:45 Hi 17:01:55 Hi 17:01:57 glad to see many people here and the mattermost relay working 17:02:08 thanks for being here 17:02:15 2. Community highlights 17:02:20 See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com 17:02:39 Most notably, a large portion of the community is focused on making the 36c3 a success 17:03:32 There was also "An update from the Core Team on some technical responsibilities" https://web.getmonero.org/2019/12/16/technical-responsibilities-update.html 17:03:43 o/ 17:03:46 say hello to Monero's new lead maintainer Snipa! 17:04:18 * sgp_ waits for at least 1 person to say hello 17:04:23 hello! 17:04:27 hi.. 17:04:28 lol there it is 17:04:31 Morning, glad to be here and looking forwards to driving the project forwards. 17:04:32 Hello. Great! Congratulations to Snipa. 17:04:52 Snipa! 17:04:58 Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share? 17:05:00 I have written you a ballad. 17:05:05 you get a CEO! and you get a CEO! 17:06:01 new reocuo is out 17:06:01 3. CCS updates 17:06:09 reouvu* 17:06:12 Funding required: 17:06:18 Sarang: research funding for 2020 Q1 (340.24 / 695 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/sarang-2020-q1.html 17:06:28 Ideas (to be discussed): None 17:06:35 As discussed during the last meeting, there was a desire to have a standalone page on the CCS for donations to workgroups and contributors. I opened an issue for this: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-front/issues/1 17:06:56 Is there any material you believe is missing or could be better? Unless someone else can take up this project, it will probably land on rehrar’s plate and will not be touched for a while. 17:06:57 that sounds like a great idea 17:07:08 i just PRd my new CCSfor jan-march: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/111 17:07:21 i'm also writing a comment about the past one in this very moment 17:07:33 ErCiccione: cool, we can discuss that too 17:07:37 * needmonero90 arrives 17:08:18 sgp_ i'm not completely sure that giving funds to workgroups is a good idea. I mean, how would they be managed? by whom? for what would the funds be used for? 17:08:26 agreed 17:08:26 i see a lot of possible controversies 17:08:30 with erciccione 17:08:54 I think that any workgroup that would want to receive money this way must have a statement with who will be in charge of it and how it will be handled. 17:09:02 And that info would have to be posted alongside the address so people know the terms 17:09:12 and if that's the case, it seems to a bit excessive for the CCS website. 17:09:22 Perhaps another (not core team) hosted alternative site for such a thing would be best. 17:10:02 The CCS is, at its heart, a core team arbited crowdfunding thing. I think it's slightly out of scope for the site to also have other fundraising methods not overseen by them 17:10:03 I guess workgroups are meant to be their own independent entities where they can 17:10:15 ErCiccione: I was personally thinking of outreach in particular, who raised funds historically and checks in relatively often with updates 17:10:28 they never claim their paychecks :P 17:11:11 I think it's pretty clear to the donor that if they send funds to a "Monero Outreach" address, that the workgroup manages the funds as they see fit 17:11:30 and they are not really transparent with the rewards AFAIK. i mean, there is no public list of transactions that i know of 17:11:37 jtgrassie raised the issue that it was difficult for people to otherwise find groups to donate to outside the ccs 17:11:43 sgp_: but what is "the workgroup"? 17:11:58 ErCiccione: I think it's clear in this case transparency is not expected 17:12:30 mmh, don't know. I think if we want to have an "open fund" for workgroups, the terms should be more strict 17:12:40 it's not really an open fund 17:12:50 we're not allocating any money 17:12:58 it's a list of addresses that people can donate to if they want 17:12:58 Couldn’t you also post your address on the old forum software? 17:13:03 selsta: yes 17:13:12 It would be similar to that, just for workgroups. 17:13:15 technically it's against the rules 17:13:16 you could include an address in your profile 17:13:36 I'd be more comfortable with it on a separate site tbh. 17:13:56 rehrar: it's against the rules to include in the CCS ideas/in progress/etc workflow 17:13:56 Who would visit that site? 17:14:26 like it or not, to most outside people, the CCS is THE way for people to find projects to contribute to 17:14:28 got it, but i'm still not convinced. Maybe rehrar is right and something external might be better 17:14:39 no. It's against the rules to put your address in a proposal. 17:14:41 we can try to push something else, but I'm worried that would be even more complicated 17:14:45 On CCS would be the most effective way to increase support for community projects and I think it would actually help take pressure off the core team in terms of accountability 17:15:04 rehrar: in the proposal is what I meant. I don't see this as a proposal at all 17:15:52 I don't like that this centralizes the workgroups onto core team infrastructure even further. 17:16:06 rehrar: it's an optional thing 17:16:13 monero community workgroup won't be on there 17:16:28 I see that concern. 17:16:33 How is posting an address centralization? :P 17:16:39 the workgroups are supposed to be decentralized and separate/non-answerable to the core team. This gives core team power to deny some workgroups over others, effectively creating a "what we deem necessary" approach 17:16:55 rehrar: how is having a list of workgroups centralization? 17:17:02 It’s also the best option. As has been mentioned already it would be difficult to promote yet another site 17:17:03 we already kinda have/had one 17:17:33 I just answered that. Read above. 17:18:08 The only way I could see it causing centralization would be if there wasn't a process for "How does a workgroup get included" and/or that process provided rather direct ways for a workgroup to be excluded that are obviously targets. 17:18:21 Exactly 17:18:27 rehrar: in my opinion this concern is entirely outweighed by the benefits of having a clear page and clear discussions about what groups get added 17:18:47 then iron that out, and I'm willing to reconsider 17:18:52 but it's not currently present 17:18:54 right, the alternative would be close to no donations to workgroups 17:19:06 I think we can have a page without being required to list Church of Monero, and for that to be okay 17:19:18 If a workgroup meets the process requirements, then doesn't get included, that's a different problem, but process helps to deal with that in the first place. 17:19:53 So let’s plan to have a temp committee to put together a proposal for what that would look like 17:20:12 *reconsider my position 17:20:15 I suggest to create a mock up to show how this proposal would look integrated to the present CCS system, right now it's not entirely clear to me how all this would look 17:20:17 sounds complicated :D 17:20:18 I mean, we already have a list for merchants and a basic list of requirements for them to be added 17:20:25 as written, my statement sounds like I'm the decider of this matter and I'm not 17:20:47 sgp_ yes but this is for the getmonero.org website 17:21:03 rehrar: https://web.getmonero.org/community/merchants/ 17:21:20 oof I hate this page 17:21:25 lol 17:21:35 tell me about it rehrar :P 17:21:39 updating it is no fun 17:21:46 +1 17:21:49 another thing that should be moved to a third party 17:22:05 xmrchants.com 17:22:15 +1 17:22:17 although it looks like xmr chants. 17:22:32 where we can also list some gregorian chant style Monero songs 17:22:33 should be completely reorganized at least, but that requires a good amount of time 17:22:56 MO has discussed plans to build a directory where merchants can add themselves, but that’s a long ways out. 17:23:07 but i am also not sure why "libraries and helpers" are merchants 17:23:07 I think 17:23:17 didn't mean to open up another discussion here, just wanted to point out that we have something similar. I don't expect the proposed CCS page to be as chaotic 17:23:22 a workgroup page with donation addresses can be added to the main getmonero.org website if it must be on core infrastructure 17:23:24 xmrhaelan: no way for now, they already managed to make my life harder even with the issue template 17:23:40 *hard 17:23:50 the Team page was already going to be reorganized into a workgroup page 17:23:57 you know, when I'm not drowning in other work 17:24:04 +1 ErCiccione - reorganisation of the merchants part is a very good thing. maybe we could do this in a git repo, where the info is collected 17:24:11 but I can make that a priority after C3 17:24:21 @erciccione It would be on MoneroOutreach.org 17:24:40 anyone care to discuss the merits of having the donation adddresses on this new Workgroups page on the website rather than the CCS site? 17:24:54 parasew: there are multiple ways to do that, better open an issue and discuss about it 17:25:11 That seems like a reasonable approach 17:25:28 rehrar: what about the centralization of the workgroups page! 17:25:29 ^responding to Rehrar 17:25:30 If we are really gung ho about the CCS site then I will discuss with core. But the CCS site isn't quite as hands-off about content as they are with getmonero 17:25:36 kidding, I'm open to ideas that include donation links 17:25:38 sgp_ I'm making concessions here for you 17:25:47 ideally, it wouldn't be on getmonero infra at all 17:26:02 but if you guys are adamant about it, I would be much happier with it on getmonero.org rather than the ccs 17:26:38 I'm worried it will conflict with the user mindset of "I want to make a donation, so I'm going to check out CCS" 17:26:59 If anything, a link can be added to the CCS that takes to this page on the website 17:27:09 workgroup page is more "I want to see what's out there and help out" 17:27:10 so they will still go to the CCS with "donation mode" activated, and find where to donate 17:27:21 rehrar: that could work 17:28:24 In any case, it seems like the CCS page is lower priority than the workgroups page 17:28:25 just my thoughts on the matter 17:28:37 It would be good to look at it in terms of what maximizes donations to the workgroups. 17:28:38 but that the workgroups page revamp is well overdue 17:28:41 in other CCS news, Zcoin adopted Monero's CCS. 17:28:50 rehrar, ooh, link? 17:28:59 zcs.zcoin.io 17:29:08 workgroup page as a central place to donate/help/contribute/contact different groups sounds better 17:29:17 rehrar: very cool, thanks for sharing 17:29:24 agree with prioritizing the new workgroups page 17:29:30 then keep the ccs as a crowdfunder for specific work over specifc time windows 17:29:37 See? Monero puts out stuff that people want. Yay! 17:30:26 They asked us to help implement, and Xiphon and I used the opportunity to give the CCS some upgrades. Those should be rolling out to Monero in the new year. 17:30:36 Perhaps we go that route, but also add a link on CCS main page pointing back to Workgroups page? 17:30:47 One of the upgrades you can see now: https://zcs.zcoin.io/proposals/test.html 17:30:50 that's actually awesome. Did they get a lot of help setting up or did they just quietly take the code and launch it? 17:30:57 Clicking contribute button doesn't take to a new page. 17:31:11 oh I see 17:31:24 as sometimes those pages were slow to generate or there were a few bugs in the past. And now it feels like a tighter experience. 17:32:05 rehrar: off-topic but after clicking on "milstones" I can't get back to the proposal. just keeps opening/closing the contribute 17:32:23 lolol 17:32:26 I’ve gotta run, looks like we have some more Monero Outreach representation here now. Thanks all. Happy holidays! 17:32:27 aight, I'll see what's up with this 17:32:36 anyway it seems like we're getting sidetracked here, so we can move on 17:32:39 my fault 17:32:46 4. Workgroup report 17:32:52 a. Daemon/CLI workgroup 17:32:56 vtnerd contributed some more networking improvements for enhanced privacy. 17:33:09 (remember to check out and comment my proposal pls ^_^) 17:33:12 There were many other updates to make the code more robust 17:33:25 ErCiccione: thanks for the reminder. I look forward to your writeup 17:33:34 b. Localization workgroup 17:33:37 ErCiccione: updates? 17:34:09 if yo uare referring to the old CSS, it will be just a short comemnt, no write up 17:34:16 about localizations, 17:35:05 not much really, but soon there will be need for translators. A lot of strings are being changed, especially in the GUI 17:35:33 also, in the next months i will work to put getmonero on weblate 17:35:49 because translating the website was fine when there weren't many updates 17:36:05 but with more stuff coming or changing, we really need a localization platform 17:36:30 the problem is that monero-site need some heay tweaks before being fully translatable on weblate 17:37:01 That's it, nothing else coming in my mind 17:37:06 oh one thing 17:37:54 if somebody speak brazilian portuguese, please come chat on #monero-translations. We got many commits changing/updating a lot of stuff, but there is an unprecedent luck of reviewers, and we weren't having too many before... 17:38:18 that's everything i can recall now 17:38:22 Weblate sounds great. 17:38:28 thanks 17:39:06 weblate -> translate.getmonero.org 17:39:40 Nice. 17:39:42 c. GUI workgroup 17:39:49 A million small UX improvements for consistency have been raised and patched. There is a lot of ongoing discussion lately thanks to a few contributors who are raising many issues, so please participate! 17:40:04 d. Outreach workgroup 17:40:09 They have a draft ready on “RPC-Pay” tentatively scheduled for the week between Christmas and New Year’s. 17:40:17 anything else xmrhaelan almutasim? 17:40:37 We have a couple of other articles in the queue. 17:40:53 And Thunderosa is setting up an Outreach server. 17:41:28 He may have more to add on that. The plan is to have it host a Pay-for-RPC (or RPC-Pay) node. 17:41:36 We'll be setting up Primo and trying that out as a way to help fund ourselves. 17:42:23 I think we have a neat way to deploy their software with content and authors. We'll know more clearly in the next week or so on how that might work. 17:43:28 Otherwise, I'm in catchup mode on the Calendar and merchant projects but expect them to move along much quicker. 17:43:56 That's about it for me. 17:44:05 thanks! 17:44:25 e. 36c3 workgroup 17:44:31 The organizers are going crazy in #monero-ccc and in real life preparing. The talks will be livestreamed on the Monero Community Workgroup channel https://youtube.com/c/monerocommunityworkgroup 17:44:33 [ Monero Community Workgroup - YouTube ] - youtube.com 17:44:38 Monero Talk will also conduct several interviews. Expect a lot of Monero and privacy content this holiday season. The 36c3 takes place December 27-30 in Leipzig, Germany. 17:44:45 parasew[m]: anything else? 17:44:51 C3 workgroup is preparing the last steps for the show which will be from 27th-30th dec in germany! 17:45:04 yes, i prepared some updates! 17:45:12 the taiga on getmonero holds some information, in case you don’t know what this is about: https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/parasew-36c3/wiki/home 17:45:19 There is a large gathering of privacy-related ‘assemblies’ and there will be a live stage, workshops and other programs. 17:45:29 Here are pics how this looked last year: https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/parasew-36c3/wiki/35c3-in-pictures 17:45:38 Txmr and nevvton are already in leipzig and the setup is working great! 17:45:56 Here are some images on the stage setup: 17:45:56 http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/1photo_2019-12-21_16-47-48.jpg 17:46:03 http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/1photo_2019-12-21_16-45-32.jpg 17:46:17 And this is how it will look in the end (pics of last year) 17:46:20 http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/photo_2019-12-21_17-16-33.jpg 17:46:26 http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/photo_2019-12-21_17-16-36.jpg 17:46:35 the whole cluster can hold about 200 people. 17:46:58 This year will be live streamed! Livestreaming will be happening from 2019-12-27 17:00 CET onwards (other days from 13:00 CET) and will be on the monero community channel: 17:47:03 https://youtube.com/c/monerocommunityworkgroup 17:47:03 [ Monero Community Workgroup - YouTube ] - youtube.com 17:47:22 This year the streaming and recording is coordinated by @getzi (a professional who also worked with the apertus open source cinema camera and with riat before) and @ajs! 17:47:27 (13 UTC is 7am CT) 17:47:30 We will have a very amazing show; here is a demo of our stream overlays http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/cdc_streamtest.mp4 17:47:46 There will be a monerotalk (remote) interviews with the speakers as well (just like on the last konferenco), so expect a lot of content! 17:47:48 woop woop !! love it!! 17:47:59 looks awesome :D 17:48:11 nice! 17:48:12 :D 17:48:16 Looks and sounds great! 17:48:27 Program and website will be online after this weekend, and will be on the usual place at https://decentral.community 17:48:31 goodness there's so much to done and so much to do 17:48:40 @rehrar, do you want to give a short sneak peek of the site? 17:49:14 sure. But I don't have the URL on hand. Sec. 17:49:33 Here is a sneak peek of the site so far: http://107.191.41.147/ (content still missing, me and rehrar are on it) 17:49:42 http://107.191.41.147/ 17:49:46 Ay, you go it. 17:49:59 current state of the content is here (but is missing the program still) 17:50:02 http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/cdc_text_v1.md 17:50:02 Yeah, I'm working on that over the next couple of days. Adding assemblies, adding About section. Adding the livestream. 17:50:11 Nice! 17:50:20 From tomorrow onwards, there will be further announcements regarding speakers, workshops and bonus program! (hidden gems!) 17:50:30 The website is quite nice so far. 17:50:30 * ErCiccione afk for like 15 minutes 17:50:38 nevvton: can you give some spoilers? 17:50:44 sure.. 17:50:55 its all about the hidden gems, right 17:51:05 So we arrived safely in leipzig and started 17:51:05 setting up our cluster: 17:51:05 everything is running great so far.. 17:51:18 stage arrived.. and yes its already being rigged and 17:51:18 mounted,LED light equipment, sound equipment.. 17:51:42 so we're actually ahead of time this year.. thats a good thing. 17:52:02 currently txmr, na_tt_i and polto from switzerland 17:52:02 are around helping + plus netg [not to forget overall]. 17:52:22 so we have a couple of early hands here in leipzig making this easier... 17:52:57 -- txmr is actuallyx right next to me .. so i'd also dedicate him some time .-... 17:53:00 @txmr 17:53:31 yeah.. 17:53:38 we're looking forward having a great time 17:53:39 regarding some 42+ speakers 17:53:45 that signed up in total 17:53:45 throughout the last days of 2019. 17:53:57 streaming links will follow, in case you cannot make it to 17:53:57 leipzig. 17:54:23 regarding our daily activites at CDC-Cluster @36c3, Leipzig ->
17:54:23 i will post all the necessary information, 17:54:38 or i could do, :) 17:54:41 timetables and live streaming links 17:54:41 daily the follwing days on respective social media channels. 17:54:57 but generally we're in good company here.. ( besides: fun fact 17:55:26 there was a WW2 bomb being found --:) in leipzig.. yes this happens sometimes 17:55:57 so .. yeah .. part of the city (tiny 1km radius) was evacuated.. we were not within the zone :) 17:56:03 but people are friendly. 17:56:09 very friendly 17:56:10 All kinds of excitement. 17:56:15 we get big props for lasts years work .. 17:56:24 42+ speakers is fantastic. 17:56:44 almutasim: it could be more, there are still some submissions missing that i know of. 17:56:51 If you are attending C3, please enter your workshops and presentations ASAP here: https://frab.riat.at 17:57:00 people are looking forward to this years speakers, all things privacy, hardware related things.. -- everything that defines the core values of our community 17:57:49 we have an e-scooter (for those that are not familiar with the size of this exhibition ground - its huge!! ) saving us energy 17:58:22 and its covered with monero stickers.. so people are already psyched to meet everyone at our cluster .. 17:58:24 :) 17:59:02 thanks for the updates, looks like it will be a good time 17:59:11 anything else before I proceed? 17:59:14 This all was made possible through the CCS and a lot of voluntary work. Thanks to everyone who supported this! 17:59:16 i further want to emphasise on the CCS contributors 17:59:29 Thank you all! 17:59:37 yes also from my side: 17:59:38 * nevvton[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/oinctLynLkmCdxaLgbFYHhhu > 17:59:39 Lucky attendees! And lucky the rest of us with streaming. 18:00:12 nice, good luck! look forward to watching the streams 18:00:29 f. Hardware workgroup 18:00:49 ty 18:01:01 Sorry, no report from the hardware team. I'm in the lab right now printing enclosures. 18:01:01 msvb wanted to give an update. are you here and can make it fast? Otherwise there will most likely be an update during the conference 18:01:13 ok, keep working msvb-fab :) 18:01:18 Otherwise, unless anyone has a specific question please move on to the next topic. 18:01:18 g. Konferenco workgroup 18:01:25 pebx continues to search for a Berlin location. He has focused only on locations that allow our own AV and catering. 18:01:43 Almost the same thing, my files are not with me so I can't give details of last week's Berlin venue scouting. 18:01:44 i casn totally help as being a berliner.. 18:01:47